[–] brumar 10 hours ago
[–] MeVfm 2 hours ago
e (絵) + moji (文字) = emoji (絵文字)
https://jisho.org/word/%E7%B5%B5 https://jisho.org/word/%E6%96%87%E5%AD%97
[–] anewhnaccount2 37 minutes ago
[–] urbandw311er 22 hours ago
They probably look like this: □ □ □ □ □ □ …
[–] slazaro 20 hours ago
[–] chrismorgan 1 day ago
[–] monomania 1 day ago
[–] mohsen1 22 hours ago
Apple is sending an image today, in a future world, the Unicode combination would render whatever that device (local AI very likely) in their device.
[–] zdragnar 10 hours ago
[–] kelseyfrog 9 hours ago
1. If you don't mind documents and bureaucracy.
2. https://unicode.org/emoji/proposals.html
3. https://www.superlinguo.com/post/632983029772582912/new-draf...
[–] mongrelion 8 hours ago
Not sure if it's the same but the concept was the same: the ability to combine two emojis together.
[–] groceryheist 1 day ago
Here on a website that deprives us commenters of emoji, I feel expressively constrained.
Or maybe I'm too lazy to remember how to express myself with Japanese emoticons.
Will we get a trainman for the emoji era?
<3
[–] mnsc 23 hours ago
[–] gertrunde 22 hours ago
(Anther set of searches tells me that some of the ones that didn't render were 'anatomical heart', tamale, 'heart hands', 'face holding back tears' (another one I would have struggled to divine the meaning of)
[–] Animats 22 hours ago
[–] rwmj 22 hours ago
[–] BoxOfRain 5 hours ago
[–] Bender 6 hours ago
Yes. When there is a post awaiting moderator review on one of my sites everyone can see the toilet paper emoji next to the board listing. I also have animated CSS that makes an emoji of a spy pop up behind threads in a couple themes. During Halloween I have an emoji bat emoji fly across the screen and a spider emoji drop down assuming the client does not have animations disabled on their desktop as I respect motion preferences. [1] (click set to use the spooky theme)
It may be silly to some these days and that's fine with me. I enjoy it and I have an odd sense of humor.
[–] Aerroon 21 hours ago
[–] baron3dl 10 hours ago
[–] eastbound 22 hours ago
[–] rmah 1 day ago
[–] sixtyj 22 hours ago
Unicode has over 1.1 millions of coding points and it is allocated space ~16 pct only.
All alphabets’ characters are described, all emojis are in… and you still have 800,000 positions available for future.
There are more than 300,000-400,000 fonts and everybody with FontMaker can make another fork/copy/enhance “basic” sans or sans-serif fonts…
…and all of them use Unicode as base.
U+1F600 for smile. :)
Edit: TIL that empty square used in a font for non-existing representation of Unicode character is called tofu :) □
[–] Gigachad 23 hours ago
[–] egnehots 22 hours ago
But now you have many more issues,
if you use a bitmap, it will look pixelated sometimes, some people love to zoom over text at incredible levels. What about light/dark themes?
If you use vector graphics, then which kind of them? will you use quadratic beziers, allow cubics? And don't think that it is easy to render vector graphics efficiently, there are many issues, parsing, anti aliasing, performance, you are also adding a new security nightmare, a good attack vector with complex to handle, parse untrusted user input.
And boy, we didn't even talk about caching, when will you send those payloads? when you type one emoji? Then what about the 2nd time? Surely not? Then how do you know the receiver has not lost your first payload? Should you batch send most payloads at the beginning? Will that introduce latency? Will you be hated by future generations?
Decoupling meaning, intent from representation, implementation is a good idea from text encoding schemes. We should not lost it. Fonts are a perfect example, most people are happy to use them. They do not overly complaint that you can change the way text is looking. The same meaning is sent to you, your platform text rendering stack is interpreting it and macos users are happy to have their consistent look, windows users are happy to have their ClearType legible rendering, ..well most are anyways.
Complex subjects rarely call for a simple hack. Yet I agree, emoji rendering is an issue. Some people even want to put in fonts rendering code (wasm?) because of how complex it is to handle.
[–] sixtyj 22 hours ago
And it is up to everybody how graphical representation of such encoding looks like.
Unique, universal and uniform encoding -> Unicode, in 1988 coined by Joe Becker.
[–] Gigachad 18 hours ago
[–] SahAssar 20 hours ago
[–] whatshisface 23 hours ago
[–] dataflow 1 day ago
[–] saulpw 23 hours ago
[–] p-e-w 23 hours ago
They are today, and there is now orders of magnitude more writing that uses emoji than the entire corpus of many of the scripts covered by Unicode.
Language and writing have always been continuously evolving and that process didn’t magically stop when the Internet was invented. The first emoji preceded their inclusion in Unicode, humans used them in writing, therefore they belong in Unicode.
[–] orbital-decay 19 hours ago
Correction: Unicode emojis are, because they got added to Unicode.
>Language and writing have always been continuously evolving and that process didn’t magically stop when the Internet was invented.
Okay but why should Unicode be a part of it, and a judge on what to include? That sounds like linguistic prescriptivism, while the original role of Unicode was descriptive and the evolution was happening outside of it. Emojis before Unicode were perfectly fine as composites that weren't mandated by committee.
[–] p-e-w 18 hours ago
How could it be otherwise? These debates have been a part of Unicode since the beginning, such as which Chinese characters to unify, which ancient scripts to include, which attested glyphs get their own code points etc.
That’s simply what it means to be a standard: Decisions need to be made, and not everyone will agree with all of them.
[–] orbital-decay 18 hours ago
Unicode emojis did not exist before Unicode, the existing composite emojis/kaomojis/etc were already perfectly expressible in existing symbols, and were nothing like Unicode emojis. This was a huge distraction from their mission, and definitely not inevitable.
Today's emotes became customized, and it's impossible to express them in any encoding. They diverged too much from writing to be called writing, it's a volatile signaling system at best. You can literally make an AI generation or upload your picture, how do you even encode or standardize that? But because of their blunder Unicode got stuck with its role of a judge and censor of a new entirely synthetic language it created, which wasn't the original purpose of the consortium.
[–] saulpw 20 hours ago
[–] thunderfork 5 hours ago
[–] p-e-w 18 hours ago
[–] Timwi 6 hours ago
[–] ninjin 23 hours ago
All things aside though, Han unification [1] remains the worst part of Unicode to me as it makes it impossible to know whether the glyph I am seeing is the one intended by whoever wrote the text (Chinese names in e-mails for example is an utter mess for someone like me that has to have their system set up to mostly handle English and Japanese). The whole Han unification mess more or less necessitates markup and sometimes even the insertions of raster image glyphs for historical and regional texts which is just bloody daft. Yes, Unicode language markers do exist and can resolve this in part. But, they are invisible to the end user, can disappear while copying and pasting, and you have to rely on the original author even putting them there in the first place! Whenever someone struggles to see the issue, I usually propose that we unify the common subsets of the Cyrillic, Greek, Latin, and Mathematical glyphs which usually finally drives home the point.
[–] eviks 22 hours ago
That would be an awesome compact encoding scheme (and also help with the next 4million emojis)! And given the relatively higher importance of those CyrGrLat, it would force wider proper support that would resolve the issues you raised, which are all app-dependent
> But, they are invisible to the end user
Apps make them visible, some even do that for whitespace chars to highlight the difference
> can disappear while copying and pasting
broken clipboards can be fixed? They somehow manage to retain rich text formatting, surely they cna retain language markers?
> you have to rely on the original author even putting them there in the first place!
Nope, the author's input app can handle that just like the original author doesn't need invisible joiners to use composed emojis
[–] bigstrat2003 23 hours ago
[–] hnlmorg 22 hours ago
And home computers have had pictograms as part of their character set since the late 70s/early 80s. For example code page 437 (MS-DOS) had smilies, card suites, and other emoji. Likewise for the PETSCII (Commodore Pet) too.
And not just emoji’s, but full on drawing characters. In fact that was the only way to draw graphics on some early systems, such as Teletext, in the early 70s.
And then you have the question of what pictograms are part of writing systems. For example the media control symbols (play, pause, fast forward, etc). Or how about the fact that some emojis had been part of written text long before Unicode, in the form of “smilies”, eg :-)
I hope this illustrates that the problem was never an easy one to define boundaries for inclusion.
[–] AnonC 22 hours ago
I love, love, love emojis and use them quite often in chats. They add emotion, whimsy, tone, and more. I can’t imagine text chats without emojis. I know that each emoji may mean different things to different people and also different things in different contexts. That makes it more appealing and inclusive (for and of people).
The biggest issues I have with emojis are:
* Too many emojis that I don’t know exist (search isn’t useful when you don’t really know or can express clearly what you’re looking for…Emojipedia helps sometimes).
* Too few emojis or no emojis for what I really want to convey.
* No way to flip any emoji vertically or horizontally or both. C’mon Unicode Consortium, you can do this!
[–] nextaccountic 4 hours ago
But I guess everyone has its own set of preferred emojis and it's all eifferent
[–] slazaro 20 hours ago
[–] emil-lp 10 hours ago
[–] Leptonmaniac 6 hours ago
[–] treyd 22 hours ago
[–] negura 1 day ago
[–] singularity2001 18 hours ago
[–] netsharc 16 hours ago
[–] ishouldnotbutk8 9 hours ago
[–] eviks 22 hours ago
This fortune is imaginary, otherwise you would've skipped "the inventory phase" with emojis because you've supposedly learned to walk thousands of times in those thousans of years
[–] __MatrixMan__ 8 hours ago
[–] amelius 6 hours ago
The best example in support of this is the cotton swab that we didn't have a symbol for during covid, and everybody was using a golf club [facepalm emoji here]
[–] badc0ffee 21 hours ago
[–] theendisney 1 day ago
[–] jimbobimbo 1 day ago
[–] xyzsparetimexyz 6 hours ago
You are amazing 火火火火
[–] avazhi 6 hours ago
[–] Pxtl 9 hours ago
- Non-suspicious eyes emoji. You know it looks suspicious but people use it to say "I'm looking at it".
- Yogurt cup emoji
- More button emojis for like warning [!] and question mark [?]. We have red X and Checkmark but what about warnings and infos? The emoji for warning and question aren't available in button form.
[–] n_plus_1_acc 8 hours ago
[–] Pxtl 6 hours ago
[–] syngrog66 19 hours ago
[–] avazhi 6 hours ago
It’s funny, you can go look at the point at which Apple started touting emoji additions to their different OS updates and it coincides perfectly with the decline and staleness of their software ecosystem more generally. Not even the TikTok generation cares about emoji as much as you’d think they do based on how much effort and attention goes into emoji and documenting emoji changes (like with this submission).
Emoji could disappear entirely tomorrow and nothing of value would be lost.
[–] bbor 1 day ago
Regardless, let's discuss the real issue here: Hacker News should support emojis, and it's goddamn ridiculous that it strips them! Like the hatred of markdown, this is a relic from an older tiem kept around for no good reason; either the three (quite well-meaning) mods are in some Eternal-Eternal-September neurosis, or the owner of this public forum is and they don't bother pushing back. Regardless: boo :( / DX<
EDIT: I now realize that this "pretty good writeup" is by one of the people in charge of Emojis, and thus just made some aggressive editorial decisions. Leaving this comment up to remind others to check the Substack's author before commenting!
[–] groceryheist 1 day ago
[–] deathanatos 22 hours ago
What in the hallucinogens are we talking about here? On the one hand, this is off the rails, in a way that feels AI, on the other hand, the only reference to "ryongface" out there seems to be this article. Even if I think that word could be corrected to … literally anything? … the rest isn't going to make much sense: "I'm going to kill you [winking emoji] — ha ha you flirt"¹ — seriously what?
¹(Still quoting the article, here.)
[–] Animats 22 hours ago
Had to do that once, pre-emoji. I have a domain in .com which is also a domain in .co.uk. That's owned by one of the famous British "public" (i.e. private boarding) schools. I used to have a catchall email address for that domain, and once in a while I'd get student emails, which I'd return with a note about why the right TLD matters.
One day, I got a student-to-student email "I am going to kill you tonight." No indication of humor. This was shortly after the Columbine massacre. I couldn't ignore it.
I'm in California, and the message was from the UK, where it was late at night. I had some trouble getting the right phone number, but after a while I was on the phone with the very British headmistress of the school, who'd clearly been awakened for this. Once I read her the message, she was thoroughly annoyed, but not at me. She recognized the student's name. It was made clear that someone was going to have a Very Bad Day. "He's only 12", she said.
If that message had come from a US school, there probably would have been a SWAT callout.
[–] alehlopeh 21 hours ago
[–] AnonC 22 hours ago
I agree. The lack of emojis on HN is an issue (for me).
[–] matkoniecz 22 hours ago
it should not, in my opinion
[–] solyin 22 hours ago
[–] matkoniecz 20 hours ago
[–] ryanisnan 1 day ago
[–] O_H_E 1 day ago
Edit: hmmm it seems actually to be more of a problem with the symbols that are constructed by combining two emojis with a zerowidth char. Like the heart on fire one.
[–] deathanatos 22 hours ago
Both "heart" and "fire" match that emoji for me on multiple IMEs (GBoard, IBus).
[–] kmoser 1 day ago
[–] lightingthedark 1 day ago
[–] Pxtl 9 hours ago
- Bold
- Italic
- Strikethrough
- Underline
- Subscript
- Superscript
- Fixed width
- Color
Arguably those should be HTML, but users obviously want them to be available in plain text, because they have the kind of semantic meaning that unicode was meant to handle.
[–] assimpleaspossi 1 day ago
[–] lepus 1 day ago
[–] assimpleaspossi 1 day ago
[–] pndy 9 hours ago
Frankly, whenever I read that subcommitte decided to introduce new extremely specific ideograms to the set, I wonder what's the point of that because as above: these probably will be forgotten or even not discovered.
But at the same time I wouldn't call them childish nonsense. We have been using various emoticons sets or even text ones on the Internet long before emoji become popular. They're in fact still emoticons just with fancy name and some standardization, interoperability.
I'd insert my favorite "melting face" here but it's not possible.
[–] gherkinnn 20 hours ago
[–] tyre 23 hours ago
[–] Larrikin 1 day ago
Should we remove lol or imho from language as well?
Is replying to someone with ??? incorrect and childish and should instead be a complete sentence when you don't understand their message.
There are constantly people having jokes and sarcasm go over their head with just plain text on this very site.
Music also wasn't better when you were younger. There just came a point where you didn't want to try new things.
TIL