[–] hypercube33 14 hours ago
[–] teleforce 1 hour ago
The board mentioned in the post is like a barebone mini RPi that cost only USD$20, a fraction of the cost for normal RPi.
A more complete embedded system with the same ESP32 cost a real bargain at USD$80 incorporating sensors, display, etc [2].
[1] The ESP32 S31 Runs Linux:
https://www.i-programmer.info/news/91-hardware/19197-the-esp...
[2] ESP-Mosaico centers dual-core RISC-V ESP32-S31 around a 2.16-inch square AMOLED:
https://linuxgizmos.com/updated-esp-mosaico-centers-dual-cor...
[–] mk_stjames 11 hours ago
[–] n_kr 10 hours ago
[–] Scoundreller 11 hours ago
even the exact same model that I use for, ahem, iptv purposes has ballooned in price by 50% over the past few years, despite no design upgrades/changes :(
[–] doublepg23 13 hours ago
[–] microtonal 10 hours ago
[–] justincormack 8 hours ago
[–] Tepix 8 hours ago
If you want Linux for very little money, there are still options. There's the MilkV Duo which is probably the cheapest at less than $10. Kind of like the Raspberry Pi Zero, but worse.
Hey, why not check your old conference badges, chances are one of them can run Linux!
[–] internet2000 14 hours ago
[–] Silagi 13 hours ago
[–] omgwtfbyobbq 12 hours ago
These days we'd be lucky to see certain models discounted to $314.
[–] jasomill 10 hours ago
For reference, the cheapest 16GB LPDDR4 (not 4X as used in the Pi 5) DIMM in stock is more than $150, which is about what I paid for the 64GB of DDR4 in my desktop a couple years ago.
[–] omgwtfbyobbq 10 hours ago
The price of a pico is what the zero used to be, and the 4gb/8gb 5 is $110 to $185 depending on ram when the 4 used to be I think $55 to $75 at the same ram.
I shouldn't be surprised because it's similar to/worse than the transition from DDR3 to DDR4, but I still was caught off guard to some degree.
[–] jasomill 10 hours ago
Fortunately for me, I already have a stack of criminally underutilized Pi 3, 4, and 5 units on a shelf from a past (non-hobby) project. No 16GB, but multiple 8GB units, and 8GB is enough for most anything I can imagine wanting to do on a Pi.
[–] codazoda 8 hours ago
[–] BorisMelnik 12 hours ago
[–] queenkjuul 9 hours ago
[–] numpad0 13 hours ago
[–] RussianBot9580 12 hours ago
[–] danparsonson 13 hours ago
[–] antonvs 11 hours ago
[–] b00ty4breakfast 10 hours ago
bit of an over-wrouught unit of time, ha
[–] antonvs 10 hours ago
[–] SuperHeavy256 13 hours ago
[–] NoboruWataya 11 hours ago
[–] fwip 13 hours ago
[–] kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 13 hours ago
[–] minraws 13 hours ago
Personally the pricing changes are absurd even with inflation and memory prices in mind.
RPi is horrible value now you can get so much more from a lot of other boards it's not even a comparison now.
[–] Rohansi 12 hours ago
They didn't really exist before. And software support is still best on RPi. But they did really lose the plot because you could buy a whole x86 mini PC (new) for less and they're much better (unless you need GPIO).
[–] II2II 11 hours ago
This is something that a lot of people seem to forget. I remember a friend showing me a low-performance Linux-based devboard shortly before the release of the Raspberry Pi. It cost hundreds of dollars. On top of that, support for the board was worse than the support for most of the Linux devboards released after the Raspberry Pi (which often has poor support compared to the Raspberry Pi).
> unless you need GPIO
I'm not even sure how that is relevant in most use cases if cost is a factor. Microcontroller development boards are inexpensive and will hook up to the x86 mini PC via USB. If you're willing to pay a bit more, many Wi-Fi based options are available.
[–] Rohansi 8 hours ago
Totally agreed. Microcontrollers do GPIO better than a RPi ever did. An ESP32 or Raspberry Pi Pico can handle so much on their own.
[–] Narishma 11 hours ago
[–] Rohansi 8 hours ago
[–] sandreas 12 hours ago
This thing has USB OTG, multiple usable GPIO and can be flashed via microSD and has a display out with touch support.
I was in the process on building a little iPod Nano clone[1] with Rust / Slint but i was too busy for a while, yet I plan to get back to it in the future. Unfortunately the sg2002 image has no CPU governor yet.
Maybe I switch to the tinyembedded dual with a custom PCB to save power[2].
[–] queenkjuul 8 hours ago
[–] sandreas 5 hours ago
However, there is also still a proprietary bootloader blob that has to be included, but still: I like the device and it's hardware... it could have better docs though.
I wrote some best practise, but a lot of thing are still missing: https://github.com/scpcom/LicheeSG-Nano-Build/blob/develop/b...
A newer project might be more successful on that: https://github.com/lone0/buildroot-external-licheervnano
[–] dreamlayers 13 hours ago
[–] dnlgrmm 8 hours ago
[–] JeffeFawkes 7 hours ago
[–] amelius 14 hours ago
[–] zzgo 12 hours ago
[–] jasomill 10 hours ago
With that said, add NFC, maybe a USB-A connector made accessible by part of the card folding back, and some UI mechanism to select TKIP codes, and a device like that could make an nice universal hardware security token.
[–] DaSHacka 11 hours ago
[–] kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 13 hours ago
[–] amelius 12 hours ago
[–] eli 12 hours ago
They’re awful to use but they are very cheap.
[–] Den_VR 12 hours ago
[–] amelius 11 hours ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_Film_Card_calculators
I don't think it's too wild to expect Linux to run in this form factor, 40 years later.
[–] martinmeba 9 hours ago
It also has instructions for how to flash it(including picoprobe) on their site instead of a discord.
Finally - last time I looked - none of the peripherals were supported(including USB) on the chip and the last commit on their kernel repo was 2023. Also the wifi barely worked.
[–] kamisori-daijin 2 hours ago
[–] pwndByDeath 13 hours ago
I still intend to go back, but time keeps on slipping...
I'm sure many have collected an impressive number of SBCs since the beaglebone, someday I want to build a display case that runs them all on some distributed process as a visual art piece
[–] logicallee 12 hours ago
https://pine64.com/product/128mb-ox64-sbc-available-on-decem...
It has 64 MB of internal psram and these cores:
- 64-bit 480MHz RV64 C906
- 32-bit 320MHz RV32 E907
- 32-bit 150MHz RV32 E902
This is like desktop computers from 30-40 years ago I guess. There were quite a few types of applications those could run.
I'd guess that this board is inexpensive as a cheap entry-level board into the pine64 ecosystem, other boards by pine64 are more expensive. ($60-$80 range.)
[–] duskwuff 10 hours ago
30 years ago was 1990; a typical desktop computer of that era would have a single CPU at 20ish MHz, and between 512 kB and 2 MB of RAM. The Ox64 easily outclasses anything that was available at the time.
[–] logicallee 9 hours ago
Your overall point is valid, though I think you'll find that this particular calculation isn't correct. (The current year ends in a 6 so 30 years ago also ends in a 6.)
However, I just did a quick search for the Doom release date, which was 1993 and the original system requirements which is Memory (RAM): 4 MB and Processor (CPU): Intel 486DX (66 MHz).[1] So in terms of RAM this is 16x as much and in terms of MHz it's 6x faster on one of the cores. So it's definitely desktop-class for 1993. (33 years ago). As you state, it's much faster than desktop class in 1990.
[1] I only just looked at Google's AI summary, maybe it's wrong: https://imgur.com/a/LbhAmGp
[–] kragen 7 hours ago
66MHz probably wasn't an 80486DX; as far as I can recall, those only went up to 50MHz. It would have to be a 486DX2, with the RAM running at only 33MHz. https://netlib.org/performance/html/dhrystone.data.col0.html says that a 486DX2/66 was about 31 to 51 Dhrystone MIPS.
https://www.riscvschool.com/2023/03/09/t-head-xuantie-c906-r... says the T-Head (Honey Badger) C906 RV64 core is about 2.3 Dhrystone MIPS ("DMIPS") per MHz, so we should expect the 480MHz C906 to be about 1100 DMIPS.
So the clock speed is only ≈8× higher, but the actual speed gap is probably closer to 32×.
And, for vectorizable workloads, we should expect the V extension to give us another 4–8× boost, so 128×–256× the DX2/66, which didn't even have MMX.
[–] duskwuff 9 hours ago
[–] snvzz 11 hours ago
A particularly good deal is the Banana Pi BPI-RV2: It has 4xC908@1.25GHz, 512MB DDR3, M.2, miniPCIe, 1x 2.5GbE, 5xGbE.
There is a cheaper Banana Pi BPI-CanMV-K230D-Zero. 2xC908, 128MB LPDDR4, KPU, MIPI CSI/DSI, Wi-Fi, 40x GPIO.
If serious about RISC-V, then of course RVA23 is desirable. Unfortunately any SBC with that is currently expensive due to the RAM shortage situation.
[–] queenkjuul 9 hours ago
[–] ajju 13 hours ago
https://thelittleengineerthatcould.blogspot.com/2019/10/horr...
Sam Altman is just catching on ;)
[–] dizhn 10 hours ago
[–] rafram 6 hours ago
Anyway, the downside of filling RAM aggressively is that it convinces users that their RAM is in very short supply, hence causing them to make issues/reddit posts/forum posts complaining about the RAM usage of even fairly conservative programs. I can’t totally blame them - if your memory only has a gigabyte free at startup, and $program uses a gigabyte and a half under heavy load, it’s natural to worry that something is going to go wrong if you open it!
Of course it doesn’t work that way, especially on modern machines with fast SSD swapping, and the memory filled at startup is mostly purgeable cache data. Doesn’t stop the complaints!
[–] syockit 2 hours ago
After some time, work forced me to switch back to Windows, and now everytime I see complaints about how Windows gobbles up RAM, I just say to myself, "Hah, that's how Linux works too!"
[–] andai 11 hours ago
This might be the most Linux sentence ever!
[–] winrid 14 hours ago
Probably a little faster than a Pentium 3
[–] BadlyDrawnBoy 13 hours ago
Its an interesting comparison that Im not sure reflects positively on the RISC-V C906 core when you factor in core area and process nodes and core area, 22nm vs 250nm. Even if we choose the worst case scenario for the P3 cores to compare which would be the Katmai core. We are basically look at ~parity with a 30 year old core design
C906 core only @ 22nm = ~0.6 mm2
C906 core only @ 250nm = ~78 mm2 (geometric transform)
P3 core only @ 22nm = ~0.5 mm2 (geometric transform)
P3 core only @ 250nm = ~76 mm2
Apologies if this is messy and badly formatted. Im currently at a wedding, sat waiting between the ceremony and the after party and Ive quite a few beers. I responded because its something I looked at previously with RISC-V cores and I already had the answers in my head
[–] cbolton 9 hours ago
So the Pentium 3 is 2x the transistor count of the C906 (even 3x if you ignore SRAM) and that's despite being 32-bit while the C906 is 64-bit and has a much more capable vector unit.
(As for new vs 30 year old design I don't really have an intuition how that's supposed to factor in the comparison... But if we consider that we should also consider how much engineering effort went into each of these cores, and we're probably talking a dozen engineers for a couple years for the C906 vs hundreds of engineers and more years for the Pentium.)
[–] winrid 9 hours ago
[–] popol12 13 hours ago
[–] znpy 14 hours ago
[–] kragen 6 hours ago
[–] pwndByDeath 13 hours ago
[–] znpy 12 hours ago
[–] andai 11 hours ago
[–] tdb7893 14 hours ago
[–] nojs 14 hours ago
[–] ac29 13 hours ago
[–] firesteelrain 13 hours ago
https://www.canakit.com/raspberry-pi-zero-2-w.html?cid=usd&s...
[–] spectre9 13 hours ago
[–] hereonout2 13 hours ago
Out of interest I just dug out my invoice for the pi500+ I brought almost exactly 12 months ago - looks I got it at around 40% of the price it goes for today.
I agree with the other poster though, ESP32 is a good alternative if you don't need linux - these things are great ...
https://shop.m5stack.com/products/atom-lite-esp32-developmen...
[–] ssl-3 7 hours ago
People don't sell enough of them[1], so the supply/demand curve favors demand and the price is only tempered by that of new hardware (if it is readily available).
That's good for sellers who pay attention. If you've got stuff that you aren't using and the price is high-enough to get your interest, then: Please sell it. :)
-
[1]: I have a theory for why it is this way:
Lots of folks buy Pi hardware. And by that, I mean: It's small compared to the market for iPhones, but it's enormous for a quirky SBC with DIY traits. But lots of those folks futz around with them and lose interest. Into the drawer they go.
People assume the value of computer-ish electronics drops dramatically over time. And for most of the history of personal computers, that's broadly been very true.
Plenty of folks do sell stuff on eBay, and those who have done so know that it can be a pain in the ass to deal with. Packaging, descriptions, printing, photos, getting the thing to the post office or whatever, dealing with the risk of getting ripped off: It sucks. It especially sucks for small quantities of unique (to the seller) low-value items.
So that Raspberry Pi (whether once $20, $40, $80, or whatever) sits in the drawer. They might sell for $200 today, but the uninterested owner doesn't know that. They assume that it's worth less than the cost of a pizza and just isn't worth fucking with at all.
So, even if they might be motivated to deal with eBay for a couple of hundred bucks, their lack of interest means that they never know that the price is high.
Accordingly, the devices stay in the drawer. The $200 remains unrealized. The devices will probably get binned after a few more years of taking up space, if they aren't binned in the next move.
[–] firesteelrain 8 hours ago
This includes all of that
[–] mpeg 12 hours ago
But online it's very hard to find
In the 2020s or somewhere before that we got a bunch of dedicated cheap MCUs that were good enough and I think stole the thunder from full Linux but there are still projects to run it on things like the ESP32 family.
Either way, hardware hacking is still my favorite hobby to watch.