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points by n4r9 1 day ago | 0 comments

Even if this is true, the obvious solution in my mind is to allow sharing of parental leave.

We do already have this in the UK post partum, although there's also the ongoing matter of childcare, which judging by headcount at school pick-up time still leans heavily female today anecdotally.

[–] n4r9 1 day ago

Is it not possible to manage childcare around full-time jobs? Let's say dad takes the kids in at 8:45 then heads to work, while mum starts work at 7, finishes at 2:30 then goes to pick up the kids. School holidays complicate matters, but you have clubs and annual leave. And you can also both reduce working hours slightly.

[–] harvey9 1 day ago

A lot of people do not work in jobs where that flexibility is practical, regardless of the legal right to request flexible working in Britain.

[–] mjburgess 1 day ago

That wouldnt "solve" the paygap, women still need to be out of the workforce for O(1yr) per child. That would be an "individual" pay gap of around 10% for a women who has two children.

[–] n4r9 1 day ago

> women still need to be out of the workforce

Do they? I've seen women take 6 months or even 3 months maternity leave, with their partner stepping in to support.

[–] mjburgess 1 day ago

So you think the average human female, bearing a child for 9months, should be off work only 1.5months either side of giving birth?

For what purpose are we saying such crazy things? Why is it so important to place all members of the human species on the same rack, stretch them to the same length, and maim them till they fit?

How have we, as a civilisation, become so terrified of difference?

[–] n4r9 1 day ago

Nothing of the sort; just providing a counterpoint to what was an overly strong/confident assertion that "woman need to be out of the workforce for O(1yr)". Those women didn't feel forced either way - they made a plan with their partner based on what leave they each had available to them and how much they each valued their work vs parenthood.

Also, 1.5 months off prior to the due date is more than normal. Most women work until 2-4 weeks before.

[–] em-bee 1 day ago

allow is not enough, it would have to be required. otherwise couples are still under pressure to let men work and let women take the leave.

[–] mjburgess 1 day ago

Why is noramlizing a population statistic, like average pay, more important to you than motherhood?

I've never met a mother who wanted to be in work full time. What exactly do zoom meetings, email threads, and spreadsheets get you in life?

I'm not one to say "captialism has gone too far", but perhaps in this case at least, isnt it mad to force average labour hours to be the same across sexes "just because" ?

[–] em-bee 1 day ago

women who do not want to work are not forced to. this is about women who do want to work but are forced to take the full parental leave instead of sharing it equally with the father because men are pressured to not take any parental leave lest it affects their career.

the goal is to require men to take equal parental leave in order to remove that pressure and put women and men on a more equal position when it comes to children.

today women are considered a hiring risk because they might have children and take parental leave. if fathers were required to take parental leave as well, then the risk would be more similar for both.

[–] ilumanty 1 day ago

> if fathers were required to take parental leave as well, then the risk would be more similar for both

I wonder what the economic implications are when both parents take leave instead of just one (e.g. twice the overhead for finding temporary cover, short-term liquidity impact for employer and public benefit funds)

[–] em-bee 1 day ago

those are the economic implications for a society that wants to have children. the right for men to take parental leave already exists (in some countries at least). so the economic implications are already a reality. that being a problem is why men are under pressure. forcing leave makes sure that employers get to face the reality. and it puts businesses on equal footing, because now they all need to do that. as a business owner i am no longer at a disadvantage compared to other businesses if i allow men to take leave.

[–] ilumanty 1 day ago

I got your point and I am still interested in the full picture of what I posted before

[–] pjc50 1 day ago

> What exactly do zoom meetings, email threads, and spreadsheets get you in life?

OK, now ask the same question of fathers.

[–] walthamstow 1 day ago

> I've never met a mother who wanted to be in work full time.

This is as daft an argument as me saying "my wife is one so all women must be"

[–] gunslinger_meta 1 day ago

In the UK it essentially is, one of the two parents can take the full parental leave. It does not have to be the mother. Guess who still chooses to raise their kid instead of creating shareholder value in bullshit jobs most of the time.