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points by dwroberts 2 days ago | 0 comments

Hungary had a revolution against Soviet control that was brutally suppressed and hundreds of thousands of people fled or were exiled. So yes, the Soviets were absolutely responsible for their communist dictatorship because they killed or removed anyone that did not comply

[–] aliasxneo 2 days ago

I don't know why the ignorance level of what happened in some of these countries during these years is so high. Seriously, did they just stop teaching it at some point? I don't get it.

[–] asdff 2 days ago

They don’t teach this in american school at least until you get to undergrad and can pick them as electives. History class usually stops after wwii. Mine didn’t even cover past wwi.

[–] robswc 2 days ago

I think its mostly because;

- Nazis were worse, and Soviets fought Nazis so they get a bit of a break

- It isn't convenient to for some narratives. (The idea that leftism is immune from authoritarianism).

[–] AngryData 2 days ago

If they teach about it people might be able to identify the actual problems of authoritarianism and having an elite class. Rather than throwing any and everything they don't like under the communist label.

[–] aliasxneo 2 days ago

Hungary is a particularly interesting case. Failed a populist uprising in 1919. Then failed again in 1945 when the Independent Smallholders’ Party won a clear majority over the communist party. Then came the "salami tactics" (secret police arrests/killings under accusations of "fascism" or conspiracy) until the "election" in 1949 which just ended up being straight down the party line (after they merged with the socialists). Not to mention the Red Army never really left after the end of WWII.

It's not the typical story people usually think about with either a populist uprising or the Red Terror.

[–] noir_lord 2 days ago

They also came quite close to succeeding, initially it looked like the Politburo would actually remove Soviet troops and let much of what they wanted to happen happen.

Then Khrushchev and the rest decided that if they let Hungary "go" they'd have a problem justifying to the people of the other not entirely willing Warsaw Pact countries why they couldn't also go.

(Dramatically simplifying for brevity), it was also a really bad time for it to happen because we (the British), French and Israeli’s decided to start a massive crisis in the middle east 2 days earlier which over shadowed events in Hungary.

My missus is Hungarian, god help you if you say that Hungary was in the USSR to her because no one else will.

Her family (and her father in particular) loathed the Hungarian Communist Party but he was something of an Anglophile which he passed on to her and indirectly that worked out for me, so when Hungary joined the EU/combined with the Hungarian government saying "If you don't like it leave" (summarising again) she decided to say "OK" and move to the UK.

[–] RussianBot9580 2 days ago

If they teach about it some people might realize that many a politician in the EU - the ones who are loudest about the evils of the Soviets - have parents who were high ranking members of the Politburo, and they owe their current position to said parents.

[–] mopsi 2 days ago

Interesting. Can you name some?

[–] mmooss 2 days ago

The Soviets certainly were a significant factor but that doesn't tell us how much Hungarians contributed. Not everyone in Hungary revolted; no doubt many cooperated.

But I don't mean to dismiss the courage of those who did revolt. Not only does it inspire others (I'm sure the Prague Spring was inspired by it, and others later), it changed how the world looked at the Soviet Union and their relationships with the Eastern European countries they dominated.

[–] fsckboy 2 days ago

>Hungary had a revolution against Soviet control that was brutally suppressed

The "Prague Spring" was not what is generally described as a revolution, hence its "poetic" name. It was people's protests and Hungarian government acceptance/compromise/accomodation that loosened the strictures the people lived under

The Soviet Union did send in troops to undo these changes, and it was brutal, there just was not an insurrection underway.

[–] kyusan0 2 days ago

"Prague Spring" was in 1968 and has absolutely nothing to do with Hungary, notably due to being the capital city of a whole other country.

The Hungarian revolution we're talking about happened in 1956, was intended to make Hungary leave the Warsaw pact altogether, and was indeed brutally suppressed.

[–] WarmWash 2 days ago

The soviets steamed rolled any opposition, but let's not forget that there were tons of people who were cheering for unsympathetic communism before the fact.

[–] enaaem 2 days ago

And that's exactly where the term 'tankie' comes from.

[–] throwaway27448 2 days ago

The term tankie originates in describing western supporters of the soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia

[–] dralley 2 days ago

Hungary was much of the same, though, and roughly the same vintage.

[–] pessimizer 2 days ago

But the Soviets, under Stalin, also killed all the far left-wing socialists and communists. The right like to pretend like the Soviets under Stalin were the poster child for communism and "leftism" when they considered non-ComIntern/ComInform left-wingers their greatest threat and enemy. "Social Fascists."

And the big right-wing anticommunists who took over everywhere after the Soviet Union's fall were just former communist party functionaries who became looters, and then decided that private property was actually the most important thing to protect after they had all of it.

The Soviets were absolutely responsible for the Stalinist dictatorship which everyone in the Soviet Union was under, it wasn't just some imposition on colonies. But being a communist who wasn't loyal got you killed a lot quicker than being a capitalist who was.

[–] lazide 2 days ago

Bonus points - what ‘loyal’ looked like changed pretty randomly and scarily with zero warning.

[–] fithisux 2 days ago

You conveniently ignore that "innocent" Hungary was a member of the Axis in WWII and participated in the bloodshed of Stalingrad.

Soviets were right to intervene.

[–] dwroberts 2 days ago

It is well understood that Hungary supported the Axis forces because it wanted its WW1 territories back. They were not considered a reliable ally (or all-in on the Nazi cause) that is why Germany eventually occupied them

[–] etc-hosts 15 hours ago

Every member of the Axis countries joined up to gain territory.

Germany occupied Hungary because Kállay secretly tried to negotiate a separate end to hostilities between Soviet Union and Hungary.

[–] fithisux 1 day ago

Sounds like Bill Clinton. There was no "penetration"