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points by ActionHank 2 days ago | 0 comments
I tried Kagi for a couple of months and then cancelled.

I really liked the AI search, but it burns through credits too quickly. I have since switched to using Hermes, it's not quite as good yet, but it's a fraction of the cost.

I liked the idea of ad free, slop free search. There were some problems with that though, which were hard to push past. I really like being able to search for stores and local restaurants. Maps integrations were hit or miss, mostly miss. It was also weirdly slow for me, even to load the search page without a query.

Final point was their published and then unpublished support of Yandex. The CEO tried to argue some "search without borders" BS, but really they are taking your money that and sending some of it to a Russian company which is either directly or indirectly funding a pointless war. I took issue with that and remembered it every single time I opened the page. In particular it really didn't sit well with me that the response was flippant and then they took down their list of sources.

I've switched to DDG and have been happier, YMMV.

[–] gamegod 2 days ago
Counterpoint: I use Kagi Assistant on the $10/mo plan for literally everything I would have used Google for before and have never burned my monthly credits.
[–] ActionHank 2 days ago
Entirely possible I am a heavy user. I tend to use AI search for all search now.
[–] gxs 2 days ago
I think you’re objections are fair and real so I won’t dismiss them

The ai credit thing is real too and I’ve written to them about it several time. My solution was just to sign up for the entire year in one go

You have to keep in mind it’s only like $25 of usage, though they could handle the experience better. In the past in the assistant it would even delete your prompt when you ran out and it was super annoying

As a product though I think it’s great - more than good enough to get off of google, I like the privacy aspect, and it’s ai features slot in nicely between search and my Claude subscription

If you follow the money, somewhere you’ll find something unsavory. This is me mostly coping, admittedly, but Kagi is good enough that a) I want to cope and b) hope continues to thrive as a full featured search engine that is a legitimate alternative to Google

DDG is good too, not quite on par with Kagi though. Kagi is super configurable and customizable- e.g. lenses, down ranking websites (e.g. for me Pinterest appears way low in search results) ai slop detection, etc

It’s also cool to be a paying customer - you email them, they respond, and sometimes even fix a bug right away for you

Happy overall with the service even though I agree it’s not perfect

[–] mrmenace 2 days ago
hey quick question, what part of Hermes were you using for search? Do they have a similar web portal to Kagi's Assistant or is it more like the AI overview below the search bar?
[–] ActionHank 2 days ago
I am running it locally at home with tailscale for access outside of my home network. I added a tavily key for search and pageloads. There are various FE projects that can connect to Hermes, they also have a frontend, but it's not a "search" interface.

If you're looking for something more typical of search + AI, DDG is probably the next best. If you're looking for a search assistant that will find you a direct link to the leaked gta 6 footage that people are talking about or to summarise a comparison of 2 oss libs, Hermes is probably the one you're after.

[–] krupan 2 days ago
I'm not at all a supporter of Putin and his wars. A question for you though: does DDG show ads for any evil companies? Where does DDG get it's search results?
[–] ActionHank 2 days ago
Ads can be switched off and you can also pay for the sub I believe.

Afaik DDG sources from bing and their own indexing.

[–] pprotas 2 days ago
Kagi is HN’s favorite darling, but their leadership constantly makes anti-user, bad business decisions.

Remember their “early adopter” drama? Wasn’t their only drama.

[–] jm4 2 days ago
I am one of their earliest subscribers. I have no idea what you are talking about.
[–] RussianCow 2 days ago
Same. I'd love to hear more, but personally, I've been very happy with my $10/month subscription for a few years now.
[–] AndroidKitKat 2 days ago
Also a very early subscriber; similarly no clue what 'early adopter drama' there was. Maybe it was the free shirts? I really had no complaints with that and the shirts made for good walking billboards. Several people have asked me what "Humanize the web" meant.
[–] throwaway27448 2 days ago
> but really they are taking your money that and sending some of it to a Russian company which is either directly or indirectly funding a pointless war

How is funding america any better?

[–] cosmicgadget 2 days ago
America's present conflicts aren't remotely on the same scale. America won't continue to overwhelmingly elect the same leader until he dies.
[–] throwaway27448 2 days ago
Are we not prolonging the conflict by funding the other side but not committing the troops necessary to win?
[–] cosmicgadget 2 days ago
I would consider sending funds and arms to the unambiguously right side to be the ethical course of action. Entering the war with troops would be escalatory, anyone who claims to know the result of that hypothetical escalation is a liar.

The Biden administration and western leaders chose monetary and logistical assistance with which Ukraine has fought Russia to a stalemate. That's not a terrible outcome if the alternative is Russia actually following through with their mad man nonsense.

Oh yeah, and winning isn't accomplished with overwhelming force. The West marching into Moscow was never a possibility, despite what Alex Dugin will have you believe. Winning is Putin backing down, being deposed, or doing the swan lake thing.

[–] throwaway27448 2 days ago
Pressuring ukraine to cede territory and accept the loss would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives and Ukraine itself. As it stands it looks more like suicide to continue fighting.

> Entering the war with troops would be escalatory, anyone who claims to know the result of that hypothetical escalation is a liar.

Anyone who claims there is an alternative path to victory is a liar.

I won't ever forgive the west for throwing ukraine under the bus to express their anxiety about russia, fully knowing that ukraine has no hope without full military commitment.

> Winning is Putin backing down, being deposed, or doing the swan lake thing.

Russia will just replace him with someone on the right wing of russian politics. That's actually a worse scenario in every way.

> That's not a terrible outcome if the alternative is Russia actually following through with their mad man nonsense.

They're following through regardless.

The only victory path is to collapse russia. We have no way to do that and there are no domestic pressures indicating this will happen any time soon. And in every way Russia is hurting, Ukraine is suffering harder.

[–] cosmicgadget 1 day ago
> Anyone who claims there is an alternative path to victory is a liar.

The liar is named Afghanistan.

> I won't ever forgive the west for throwing ukraine under the bus to express their anxiety about russia

What does this even mean?

> Russia will just replace him with someone on the right wing of russian politics. That's actually a worse scenario in every way.

Amazing. Russian voters will look at their economy, their dead, their global image, and choose someone even more inclined to continue the five+ year SMO.

I'm not so sure the succession will be smooth though. If anyone was equipped to seamlessly take the reins they'd be a threat to the current guy. Any internal struggle means less commitment to the war.

> The only victory path is to collapse russia. We have no way to do that and there are no domestic pressures indicating this will happen any time soon. And in every way Russia is hurting, Ukraine is suffering harder.

Don't need Russia to collapse, just need it to decide there are more important uses of their fighting-age men and money. Putin is committed, others need not be. Economically, things will continue to decline for Russians and while it's possible to fake it by printing money, reality eventually catches up.

[–] throwaway27448 1 day ago
Ukraine isn't afghanistan, and if it were, the afghanistan part (non-plains) has mostly been conquered already. So I'm not sure what the plan is.

> What does this even mean?

The morons running the west want to do something about russia, because they swallowed their own cold war bullshit for decades and never learned to play nice with others. Ukraine was just the nearest opportunity to do so, even if it meant fucking over 25 million people for no clear benefit.

Look I love for you that you have hope. If I could pay to get your hope, I would! It would be better sleep at night. However, I will be right in the end, and the history books will reflect that europe chose to watch ukraine die in front of their eyes, and in fact paid to prolong the pain and violence.

[–] wolvoleo 2 days ago
You know Trump is constantly bragging about a third term right?

And besides the small win this week things are still looking really bleak internationally.

I still use US services too much tbh but slowly things are improving.

[–] cosmicgadget 2 days ago
Trump brags about a lot of things. He's constantly the greatest, most xyz in history. Everything is amazing right now and was a catastrophe under previous administrations. He claims he will annex Greenland and Canada. There's no reason to believe his third term ramblings are actually honest, much less practical.

I won't bore you with the details, but I fully believe he only ran for president in '24 because it was his only way to avoid prison. He was staring at two slam dunk convictions and his only outs were fleeing the country or taking over the department prosecuting him.

And even if he were to somehow circumvent the Constitution and fool the electorate that has, just this week, overwhelmingly told him he sucks, he's still not the dictator/mob boss that Putin has been for 30 years. He aspires to be that but Americans just aren't Russians.

> things are still looking really bleak internationally.

Yeah, it kind of sucks when the hegemon becomes this dumb hydra of isolationism, extortion, and military adventurism. Europe is doing a solid job of insulating itself from its mercurial western ally, I hope things will return to normal before too long.

[–] expedited123 2 days ago
It's not. That's why I suggest people outside of the US should stop buying and using American products as much as possible.

There are options. Uruky is a great European search engine where you can use an European search index (EUSP) alongside other smaller ones. Their entire stack is USA free.

[–] severino 2 days ago
> but really they are taking your money that and sending some of it to a Russian company which is either directly or indirectly funding a pointless war

Wait til you realize the search engines you use now are funding directly AND indirectly even more pointless wars than that one...

[–] cosmicgadget 2 days ago
Can we get a summary of each? I'd like to see various metrics on the scale and brutality of the war compared to state ownership of the company, direct monetary contributions, and indirect monetary contributions to the war effort.
[–] severino 2 days ago
Yes, right, I'd also like to see that information, i.e., how much of the money Yandex gets from a Kagi search from a random guy is going to the Russian MoD. Specially, a summary made by the people that thinks that switching to a search engine headquartered in Pennsylvania is a better option to "not contributing to pointless wars".
[–] cosmicgadget 2 days ago
Wait, I thought you already had that information. You seemed to imply that you did and I needed to be enlightened.
[–] severino 2 days ago
No, I didn't, as I wasn't replying to you in the first place.