The Biden administration and western leaders chose monetary and logistical assistance with which Ukraine has fought Russia to a stalemate. That's not a terrible outcome if the alternative is Russia actually following through with their mad man nonsense.
Oh yeah, and winning isn't accomplished with overwhelming force. The West marching into Moscow was never a possibility, despite what Alex Dugin will have you believe. Winning is Putin backing down, being deposed, or doing the swan lake thing.
[–] throwaway27448 2 days ago
[–] cosmicgadget 2 days ago
The liar is named Afghanistan.
> I won't ever forgive the west for throwing ukraine under the bus to express their anxiety about russia
What does this even mean?
> Russia will just replace him with someone on the right wing of russian politics. That's actually a worse scenario in every way.
Amazing. Russian voters will look at their economy, their dead, their global image, and choose someone even more inclined to continue the five+ year SMO.
I'm not so sure the succession will be smooth though. If anyone was equipped to seamlessly take the reins they'd be a threat to the current guy. Any internal struggle means less commitment to the war.
> The only victory path is to collapse russia. We have no way to do that and there are no domestic pressures indicating this will happen any time soon. And in every way Russia is hurting, Ukraine is suffering harder.
Don't need Russia to collapse, just need it to decide there are more important uses of their fighting-age men and money. Putin is committed, others need not be. Economically, things will continue to decline for Russians and while it's possible to fake it by printing money, reality eventually catches up.
[–] throwaway27448 1 day ago
> What does this even mean?
The morons running the west want to do something about russia, because they swallowed their own cold war bullshit for decades and never learned to play nice with others. Ukraine was just the nearest opportunity to do so, even if it meant fucking over 25 million people for no clear benefit.
Look I love for you that you have hope. If I could pay to get your hope, I would! It would be better sleep at night. However, I will be right in the end, and the history books will reflect that europe chose to watch ukraine die in front of their eyes, and in fact paid to prolong the pain and violence.
[–] cosmicgadget 1 day ago
> they swallowed their own cold war bullshit
You're thinking of the actual cold warrior. The one who worked in the soviet intelligence services and became a dictator. The one who initiated the invasion.
> Ukraine was just the nearest opportunity to do so, even if it meant fucking over 25 million people for no clear benefit.
When the US... rolled tanks into Ukraine? You're approaching self-parody my man.
> Entering the war with troops would be escalatory, anyone who claims to know the result of that hypothetical escalation is a liar.
Anyone who claims there is an alternative path to victory is a liar.
I won't ever forgive the west for throwing ukraine under the bus to express their anxiety about russia, fully knowing that ukraine has no hope without full military commitment.
> Winning is Putin backing down, being deposed, or doing the swan lake thing.
Russia will just replace him with someone on the right wing of russian politics. That's actually a worse scenario in every way.
> That's not a terrible outcome if the alternative is Russia actually following through with their mad man nonsense.
They're following through regardless.
The only victory path is to collapse russia. We have no way to do that and there are no domestic pressures indicating this will happen any time soon. And in every way Russia is hurting, Ukraine is suffering harder.