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points by Rooster61 2 days ago | 0 comments

The fact that the hardware vendor blobs are outside the control of GrapheneOS makes me wary of getting a Motorola phone, due to:

A) China's intelligence laws greatly suggest those blobs are going to have backdoors, particularly for the modem

B) Even if they weren't using backdoors, there's nothing stopping the US from unilaterally banning all Chinese made devices (something I definitely don't put past them since the TPLink incident)

It's already not guaranteed that the US govt won't outright ban the use of GrapheneOS, so adding the extra risk of Chinese manufactured phones getting the kibosh stateside makes me not want to risk $1600 on a phone.

[–] iamnothere 2 days ago

Typically when the US “bans” a device, it’s only banned for import/first sale or for government employees. Huawei phones still work on many US carriers, for instance, despite the “ban”.

[–] fooqux 2 days ago

Sorry, but this just seems like FUD to me.

A) This is already the case for basically every phone for sale, and thus isn't really applicable to this article. Also, I thought the modem was by Qualcomm?

B) Sure, they could ban all Chinese made devices but that would basically mean banning all devices. Pixels are made in China just like Motorola, so again, not much of a difference here (I'll allow that there may be a difference of just how much of the phones are made in China.)

C) How is the government going to ban the use of an open source OS? And why would they? Apple has spit in the government's eye a few times and yet they don't ban iOS.

[–] Rooster61 2 days ago

Not intended to be FUD, legitimate concern. I could see how it could come off that way.

A and B) Sure, but you said it yourself: that how much is a significant factor. And Pixels use Samsung modems, not Qualcomm

C) How does the government ban anything? Through legislation and enforcement. That can take a number of different forms

[–] fooqux 2 days ago

> And Pixels use Samsung modems, not Qualcomm

Yeah and Samsung foundry makes Qualcomm chips. So does TSMC, but I'm pretty sure China doesn't control that despite what they may say. At no point while searching online did I see mention of these chips being made in China.

> Not intended to be FUD, legitimate concern. I could see how it could come off that way.

No problem!

[–] tranq_cassowary 1 day ago

Blobs aren't black boxes and can be examined. Closed source code can be decompiled etc.

Not sure why GrapheneOS should look at USA isolationist tendencies when making partnership decisions. If it were to take into account all hypothetical future trade barriers and regulations of all possible countries, no decisions could be taken anymore.

[–] wildzzz 2 days ago

Name one domestically named phone other than a Purism Liberty.

[–] grapheneos 2 days ago

That's only assembled in the US. The important components such as the SoC aren't made in the US.

[–] Rooster61 2 days ago

There isn't, but I didn't state that there was. What I will say is that a Pixel phone is much less likely to have a Chinese backdoor due to less exposure to to Chinese facilities throughout the supply chain (The modem chip for instance is Samsung, not Qualcomm. Primarily South Korean/US made rather than Chinese, though not entirely).