Hacker News
points by markasoftware 4 hours ago | 0 comments
I'm not claiming auto is worse than manual; I'm claiming it cannot be compared with anything security-wise because it does not aim to provide any guarantees, there's no systematic way to reason about what it will and won't allow, etc

With e.g. VM or container sandboxing, we can say things like "If there are no vulnerabilities in the hypervisor or hardware, then the agent can only access these files, these network services, etc". Auto mode doesn't even try to provide any guarantees, so it's impossible to reason about. It amounts to just using the models judgment about what's "malicious" or not, a definition which is subjective, changes model to model, and can be influenced by attacker input.

Empirical evaluations of how many vulnerabilities manual vs auto mode let through are not super meaningful because auto mode changes dramatically with model releases, the type of task being performed, whether the attacker is making targeted attacks designed to bypass auto mode, etc. A security feature cannot rely on these sorts of factors if it's to be taken seriously.

Further, percent of malicious tool calls accepted is a bad metric. It's like measuring the security of ssh in terms of what percent of unauthenticated logins succeed. The only acceptable value is zero. It's pass/fail, not a spectrum. So both auto and manual mode should fail equally here. Further, the set of malicious tool calls admitted in auto mode may not be a subset of those admitted in manual mode.

[–] Kim_Bruning 4 hours ago
Ah, you're going for the actual adversarial case.

I think I'd trust the current approver with correctly classifying regular semi-interactive LLM behavior fairly well.

However, if we bring in a hostile adversary that calculus changes, and you'd be right to start thinking about other approaches.

On the other hand, transformers are a surprisingly powerful technology, and I wonder if there wouldn't be ways to train one to several nines reliability under adversarial attack. It seems to have worked in at least one case; though I'd be a bit cautious to extend that conclusion to more cases quite yet.

* https://hackmyclaw.com/ ; https://simonwillison.net/2026/Jun/26/hack-my-ai-assistant/

[–] markasoftware 3 hours ago
Hmm, what does auto mode protect against in the non-adversarial case? Aren't the models already extensively trained not to perform harmful actions without provocation?
[–] Kim_Bruning 3 hours ago
It mostly stops honest mistakes, because those do happen, especially when the <prompting> might not have been perfect either.

You do have a bit of a point, though: I’ve run several models in sandboxes with --dangerously-skip-permissions for months; in the full expectation that I'd need to replace a sandbox once in a while. But so far none of the sandboxes have trashed themselves, yet. knock on wood

Auto mode seems like a lighter-weight version of that: fewer local resources, and it can run on the metal if you need cc to help with system work.

[–] lifeisloving 1 hour ago
That is not my experience. They attempt to nuke my containers quite frequently. I run regex on all their tool calls and stop them from doing certain things, its the only thing that prevents them from removing their home directory at some point.

This isnt even the main concern with dangerously skip all permission though. There are many. What happens when they get prompt injected on a web page and send someone all their privileged information because you give them free access to the internet.

Using llms like this is dangerous. They will ruin your day eventually.

[–] lifeisloving 1 hour ago
All SOTA models will still try to delete its home directory. I have a plugin that prevents things like this and it gets triggered more than you'd think, despite having hook instructions on every request not do do certain things. It will also try to find ways around its permissions, quite cunningly.

You can not trust that they're RL'd to be safe. Even if it only happens 99.80% of the time (its more than that) it will eventually happen.

Less severe actions will happen even more often. People using llms with their native browser profiles are getting farmed, hard.

Llms are highly dangerous in terms of security, but they're being marketed as highly intelligent tools that everyone should use. Its really mind blowing.