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points by graemep 16 hours ago | 0 comments
> France now ranks alongside Kazakhstan, Yemen, and Zimbabwe in its own citizens’ eyes while the U.S. is split down the middle with about half of Americans saying they don’t think they live in a democracy anymore. China, on the other hand, sits up there with the Scandinavians

That just proves how nonsensical the numbers are. People have different standards, and peoples perceptions are not accurate.

Looking are the two countries I have lived in, people in one are “very positive” because journalists are no longer disappearing and they are confident the government will accept an election defeat. In the other, people are “neutral” because many feel the political class are out of touch, or that freedom of speech has been compromised by things like hate speech laws, or other issues at that level.

Perceptions are shaped by the media too. Other things being equal effective state control of media will make people more positive.

[–] yogthos 15 hours ago
How people perceive their political system is literally the only thing that matters. No amount of media can paper over the fact that your life sucks. Meanwhile, the distinction between state media and oligarch owned media is completely meaningless. What makes people's outlook positive is having a decent standard of living and seeing their living conditions improve.
[–] mopsi 13 hours ago

   > No amount of media can paper over the fact that your life sucks.
Of course it can:

  1. A Chinese citizen experiences rising living costs.
  2. Their social media feed is filled with videos of Americans struggling with medical bills, homelessness and housing costs.
  3. They start feeling like they're better off by comparison.
  4. Their satisfaction with their own country may increase without any improvement in their personal circumstances.
It is well established in political communication research that people don't evaluate their circumstances in isolation. They evaluate them against the alternatives and reference points presented to them, which the media can shape to a great degree. Fox News and its influence on the rural Americans is a solid practical example of this.

If media ownership was meaningless, governments and oligarchs wouldn't spend so much effort controlling it.

[–] yogthos 12 hours ago
Anybody who's actually been to China knows that Chinese media spends practically no time talking about the US. Meanwhile, what Chinese people do experience is the following. People in China have experienced a rise in living standards that's completely unprecedented in human history.

90% of families in the country own their home giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What’s more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other leans. https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2016/03/30/how-peop...

Chinese household savings hit another record high in 2024 https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-dow-jone...

Social mobility in China being far better than in the US https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/18/world/asia/ch...

The typical Chinese adult is now richer than the typical European adult https://www.businessinsider.com/typical-chinese-adult-now-ri...

The real (inflation-adjusted) incomes of the poorest half of the Chinese population increased by more than four hundred percent from 1978 to 2015, while real incomes of the poorest half of the US population actually declined during the same time period. https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w23119/w231...

From 1978 to 2000, the number of people in China living on under $1/day fell by 300 million, reversing a global trend of rising poverty that had lasted half a century (i.e. if China were excluded, the world’s total poverty population would have risen) https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/China’s-Economic-Growt...

From 2010 to 2019 (the most recent period for which uninterrupted data is available), the income of the poorest 20% in China increased even as a share of total income. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.DST.FRST.20?end=2019...

And your whole narrative falls apart when we look at how MAGA actively voted against Trump once the war hit them in the wallet. Also, look at the riots happening all across Europe where the media tells people things are going great.

[–] za_creature 11 hours ago
A country being democratic is not the same as being a great place to live, though there is a lot of overlap between the two. My point regarding the mexican standoff between parties is STRICTLY about the VOTING SYSTEM. The competing interests of multiple parties ensure a mostly FAIR election. A benevolent dictator surrounded by an exceptionally intelligent court will always produce better results, it's just that on average, dictators are not that benevolent.

China's rise has been nothing short of meteoric, and I applaud them for it. I'm certain that their average standard of living is very high by most metrics, quite comparable and maybe even better than western countries. IT IS STILL NOT A DEMOCRACY!

At any rate, I'm going to stop arguing because you seem way too invested in praising the dragon, and not just in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50386836

[–] yogthos 11 hours ago
By definition, a democratic country will be a place where the government works in the interest of the majority. That's literally what democracy is. Voting, the way it's done in western democracies, is just one attempt at implementing this contract. Democratic Centralism is a different approach to this idea, that's showing far better tangible results right now.

You appear to have an infantile understanding of democracy equating it with simply having the ability to vote.

It's also hilarious that you think you understand Chinese system better than people who actually live in China and call their system a democracy. The sheer amount of chauvinism required to hold such beliefs is astounding.

At any rate, stick to subjects you have a clue about in the future as to avoid making a clown of yourself in public.

[–] za_creature 11 hours ago
fyi, I was born in a "democratic centralist" country
[–] yogthos 10 hours ago
it shows