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points by consensus1 18 hours ago | 0 comments
Math failure here. If you keep half your $1400 units off the market and get $2400 for the others you are losing $400 per unit. Also there is zero evidence any landlords were doing this.
[–] DANmode 15 hours ago
Maybe you’re misunderstanding.

I’m speculating the price would be closer to $1,400 per unit.

The price across this hypothetical town is $2,400 per unit (let’s say it’s a 2 bed 2 bath apartment), “suggested”/set by RealPage software.

Because that’s how using their product worked.

Half of them sit empty because their business model doesn’t care (tax deductions on other income, while still increasing total assets in their portfolio).

There is…a good amount of evidence of landlords doing this, and how:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-requires-r...

and

these landlords coordinated through a variety of means, including:

Directly communicating with competitors’ senior managers about rents, occupancy, and other competitively sensitive topics. In one example, Greystar supplied Camden with information not only about very recent renewal rates, but also its approach to pricing for the upcoming quarter, its acceptance of RealPage’s pricing recommendations, use of concessions and competitively sensitive information about occupancy. Likewise, executives at Camden and LivCor communicated over the course of months about their pricing strategies, including plans for certain price increases. Regularly conducting “call arounds.” During these discussions, euphemistically referred to as “market surveys,” property managers called or emailed competitors to share, and sometimes discuss, competitively sensitive information about rents, occupancy, pricing strategies and discounts. Participating in “user groups” hosted by RealPage. For instance, landlords discussed via user groups how to modify the software’s pricing methodology, as well as their own pricing strategies. In one example, LivCor and Willow Bridge executives participated in a user group discussion of plans for renewal increases, concessions and acceptance rates of RealPage rent recommendations. Sharing information with competitors about parameters in RealPage’s software. As an example, at the request of Willow Bridge’s director of revenue management, Greystar’s director of revenue management supplied its standard auto-accept parameters for RealPage’s software, including the daily and weekly limits and the days of the week for which Greystar used “auto-accept.”

[–] consensus1 12 hours ago
"Half of them sit empty because their business model doesn’t care"

What kind of insanity is this? Your entire argument is based on landlords not caring about occupancy, when that is actually the number one thing they care about. You obviously have no idea how any of this works and your linked source does not say a damn thing about landlords intentionally leaving units vacant.

[–] DANmode 9 hours ago
Good news: proving illegal collusion didn’t require proving intentional vacancies.

The evidence for that, if you want it, is as easy as opening the 5 newest developments in any major metro, and see how many units are available, despite masses of families constantly looking. It’s kind of appalling.

PS it’s not me you’re debating, it’s the DOJ.

[–] pessimizer 18 hours ago
Except you can write off those $1400 units as $2400 of losses that will offset profits from another part of your business.

Not everything is "Economics 101."

[–] jasode 17 hours ago
>Except you can write off those $1400 units as $2400 of losses that will offset profits

No, the IRS doesn't allow tax deductions for the "missing $2400 rents" of unrented units. IRS only allows deducting ongoing expenses such as "maintenance, insurance, taxes, and interest," :

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p527.pdf

[–] DANmode 12 hours ago
Flagging doesn’t change legal reality.

Voting at a polling place might, but I’m just the messenger, just telling you what’s out there.

[–] consensus1 16 hours ago
If you want to commit tax fraud you can still do that while renting out your units.
[–] lotsofpulp 18 hours ago
You don’t need evidence for vibes based thinking. The goal is to satisfy emotional needs, not logical consistency.