That was from a well known, respected, and long-time American Open Source lawyer.
[–] droidjj 15 hours ago
[–] NoMoreNicksLeft 8 hours ago
Even if. it's not just the citation graph. No headnotes. No restatements. They're about 100 light years away from being close to usable, even if the citator was complete and comparable.
[–] weitendorf 10 hours ago
It's a certainty that your clients and colleagues will be using Word to work with you and the rest of the legal system, and some files will use docx.
It would be pretty bizarre to turn down work or make things harder for people outside your firm because you refuse to use Microsoft Word.
You could use another tool that handles .docx but if it's not directly compatible with Word you're almost guaranteed to run into compatibility issues or maybe serious errors. If you don't even touch Word at all, then the first person to run into them would might be your client. Do you not just immediately decide that it's not worth saving $100/yr to eliminate that kind of risk? If not then you have to say something like
"Actually, it's more important that software be free and open source than that thing you pay me to do for you, that costs about two minutes of billable hours, and which every other lawyer uses?"
I don't think someone with that kind of decision making should be a lawyer, not necessarily because it's wrong but because even if it's true, imagine explaining to the bar association that Arch started opting you into nightly builds?Obviously there should be lawyers trying to use open source software, but I can't believe a real person would never run into compatibility issues. Richard stallman as a lawyer explaining that he can't open files sent in formats that do not respect user freedom is such a good bit
[–] richardfontana 14 hours ago
Some courts expect Word format. I haven't been close to litigation in ages so I don't know how common a thing this is, but here's an example of an apparent "Word only" federal court: https://www.caed.uscourts.gov/caednew/index.cfm/attorney-inf... . So sure, in a hypothetical where a lawyer stubbornly refused to use Word in the context of a filing in that court, you can imagine consequences arising to the level of malpractice, but I don't think that's what they had in mind.
A more familiar issue to me (and I'm guessing what that speaker was thinking of) is that if you're negotiating an agreement with some other party, and they are using Word (as they most likely will be), it is going to be highly inconvenient at best to insist on using some alternative tool.
Red Hat's in house legal team is, er, was not a law firm of course, but ages ago Red Hat attempted to have as many 'back-office' staff use RHEL as possible, with few exceptions related to what was necessary for regulatory purposes. This extended to Red Hat's legal team, which attempted valiantly for a while to use OpenOffice (as was, and I suppose more specifically the RHEL packaging of the go-oo fork in those days) for all document-related purposes, including negotiating agreements with outside parties who were using Word. This proved to be impractical for at least the subset of the legal team that did that sort of work as their daily bread and butter, and eventually they got access to Word on Windows on VMware. Later on, it became possible for Red Hat lawyers to use OS X and Windows with Word, so the issue went away.
[–] crabmusket 7 hours ago
I sure hope so. The idea that if you want to work in [profession x] you have no choice but to pay the [megacorp y] tax is obscene, and should be fought against even as we acknowledge that it is often the reality.
We've come a long way since the days of Brandeis and the trust busters.
[–] SoftTalker 13 hours ago
Also, IIRC one of Wordperfect's last strongholds was in the legal sector, as they had so much invested in Wordperfect templates and (I'm told) its citation management fucntionality was good.
[–] freejazz 5 hours ago
[–] freejazz 5 hours ago
That's only for documents that are required to be "submitted to the court in word processing format." It's an unusual circumstance when that is the case. 99.999% of all court documents are submitted as PDFs.
[–] crabmusket 7 hours ago
> I had wondered if I would need to switch to Word for some documents but, so far, no.
> I don’t know how many “Word documents” I’ve worked on in the last year - low hundreds, at a guess - but there has been no problem.
> Even a document with hundreds of tracked changes and comments, and multiple contributors across multiple organisations - an unusual situation for me, anyway - was fine.
> (Admittedly, it took me a while how to deal with LibreOffice Writer’s tracked changes function and comments, but that was simply user error.)
[–] jrm4 15 hours ago
As a techy person with a law degree that doesn't really practice any more, the "silos" of what each lawyer thinks is and isn't a "must have" is interesting, as well as the huge differences in rates and types of tech adoption; a huge factor here is probably administrative assistants who do a lot of heavy lifting.
[–] weitendorf 10 hours ago
they ask how you've managed to avoid this problem so far, and it turns out that you've been battling it nonstop for years
How do you justify that as a lawyer on the basis of "user freedom"?
Honestly your best defense is probably true ignorance or bad decision making that led you to choose something that, to non-developers, really only works as a way to save $100/yr or do some crazy new thing that didn't work. But that's still pretty bad.
Even if you're some crazy unix hacker wizard who for some reason works as a lawyer, how does never using Word help your client?
[–] 40four 8 hours ago
[–] vikas123456789 8 hours ago
[–] mushufasa 15 hours ago
[–] tiahura 15 hours ago
Wordcraft is now a decent Word clone and is leaps and bounds over OpenOffice.
[–] physPop 15 hours ago
[–] creativeSlumber 10 hours ago
[–] piker 15 hours ago
[–] tiahura 14 hours ago
Because Wordcraft is faster and more stable than Word. Word rarely crashes, but it does freeze. Wordcraft is freezing about 1/2 as often as Word. For the daily grinding out docs, it's way more viable than Openoffice.
But mostly, because having a workflow entirely dependent on a single vendor seems like something to avoid if possible.
The last formatting bug I encountered was last week. Claude identified, patched, and pushed in 10 minutes.
It doesn't do VBA. However, porting VBA to WC macros is trivial for llms.
[–] alansaber 14 hours ago
[–] lostlogin 12 hours ago
[–] alansaber 12 hours ago
[–] thatsallchildsp 14 hours ago
[–] dghlsakjg 14 hours ago
[–] tiahura 14 hours ago
When you convert to pdf, it typically produces identical content streams to Word.
[–] dghlsakjg 13 hours ago
I can't directly refute your claims, but I can say that a program that won't install can't do any of those things for me.
I don't care if my lawyer doesn't use word. I do care if they use a buggy, vibe coded that is still in Alpha. Word processing is a solved problem. Free (beer or speech) word processing is a solved problem. Word compatible free word processing is a solved problem. Don't put my case in jeopardy because you want to use untested, alpha software.
It's definitely not categorically malpractice to not use Word. Depends entirely on the situation. If a court demands docx and you file an rtf, or you refuse to read a client's redlines because they're in Word, sure, that could be malpractice.
The only proprietary software that I think _might_ be malpractice not to use is a legal research service with a capable citator, like Westlaw or LexisNexis. If you rely on a case that was overruled, you can't defend a malpractice suit by saying, "I didn't want to pay for the software."
I hear CourtListener (a free legal research tool) is working on a citator--hopefully it's competitive with the paid services.