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points by isolay 1 day ago | 0 comments

> Their populations are content, their governments are highly functional, their economies hum along, and nothing of note has happened in any of them since World War II.

Another reminder that boring is good.

[–] stana 1 day ago

"in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock." (Harry Lime in the movie "The Third Man")

[–] pluc 17 hours ago

If you want greatness, throw human suffering at it

[–] defrost 1 day ago

Cute.

In reality, of course, they produce a great deal more than cuckoo clocks; one of the most competitive pharmaceutical industries in the world, industrial chemicals, defence technology, agriculture, financial services, food processing, etc - up to a trillion or so per annum IIRC.

[–] adg001 1 day ago

The cuckoo clock was intended to be a contemporary reference to the Renaissance period, not an exhaustive assessment of what Switzerland contributed to the present day.

[–] defrost 1 day ago

In the flow of comments;

   and nothing of note has happened in any of them since World War II.

the timeframe does not appear to be pinned to the Renaissance period. Further, the quote I replied to was from The Third Man a movie made and released in 1949 that was set in post world war II Vienna.

Further again, that quote appears to address present era Switzerland 500 years after the infamous time of the House of Borgia.

[–] adg001 23 hours ago

1/ The referenced quote in the parent comment is clear (while false - more below) to everybody but you. Being taken from a movie, it cannot be germane to the present flow of comments, you claim to reply to. Rather the quote reads: "By the time in Italy [this], in Switzerland [that]."

2/ The OP is about San Marino; the quoted excerpt is referencing the European city states of San Marino, Liechtenstein, Monaco, and Andorra; hence the flow of comments you point at is not concerned with Switzerland per se.

3/ The referenced quote is nevertheless false, because cuckoo clocks were invented in the Dresden in early 1600s; only popular culture associate them to Switzerland.

[–] oliculipolicula 17 hours ago

According to co-writer Graham Greene (who retired to Switzerland) they had been importing the clocks from Bavaria

https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/politics/miscellany/history...

[–] p-e-w 18 hours ago

It’s important to note that Switzerland has produced these things at least partially through the grace of the countries surrounding it.

Things would be very different in Switzerland if it bordered the Eastern Bloc or the Mediterranean Sea.

[–] xhevahir 23 hours ago

I would be wary of drawing big conclusions from the example of countries like these. The kind of boredom enjoyed in San Marino and Liechtenstein is probably not available to bigger countries.

[–] oliculipolicula 17 hours ago

Indeed. They've had Universal Basic Boredom (since 2011 or so):

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sanmarino/...

https://youtu.be/AwjeTiTdsF8

gives you a good picture. (Seems like he was incarcerated for domestic violence..)

[–] akurilin 1 day ago

I've heard that kind of description used for Switzerland as well. Accurate?

[–] b3lvedere 21 hours ago

I think so? I have been to Switzerland a few times. It is an amazingly beautiful country, but expensive. I guess people don’t mind that much if they think their taxes are put to good use.

[–] justincormack 19 hours ago

Switzerland is not expensive due to high tax rates.

[–] epolanski 20 hours ago

It's incredible how little respect there is for political systems that incentivize stability.

Parliamentary republics do tend to form less stable governments, but it's also true that you can really govern by compromising both with your party, allies, and opposition.

In over 50 years not a single parliamentary republic has turned authoritarian, in fact only Sri Lanka in the 70s has done so since world war 2.

Presidential and semi-presidential republics? They are all just waiting for the right person at the right time, from Turkey to Nicaragua to the Philippines to Russia, etc, etc.

I don't think any modern country should aim at anything less than boring, albeit unstable, parliamentary republics, with presidents that are not elected by popular vote (like in Germany or Italy) and have no executive power.

If your country is doing good, you likely want minor/middle steer adjustements, not radical changes at each new vote.

[–] roryirvine 19 hours ago

I think it's the explicit lack of executive power that's the important part, not the lack of a direct popular vote. There doesn't seem to be much of a difference between say, the presidency of Finland (elected) and that of Estonia (appointed).

In fact, I'd say that Ireland's (directly elected) presidency has been one of the most notably successful, particularly in the post-1990 period when it's taken on more of a "cultural" rather than "political" focus.

[–] epolanski 19 hours ago

I might be biased because I'm Polish, where the president is elected, and I hate the system compared to Germany or Italy.

A political head of state is not good imho, just ends up vetoing and doing politics instead of acting as a guardian of the constitution and institutions.

It's just a matter of "elect president from government's opposition and he's now emboldened to veto and block anything because he has popular mandate to do so".

Politicians electing the president seems a better option because they need to compromise on an individual that will allow any party to govern and be checked.

[–] teo_zero 9 hours ago

> In over 50 years not a single parliamentary republic has turned authoritarian

What about Turkey? (I consider it among the parliamentary republics as it was so until 2017, when the authoritarian shift was already ongoing. In other words, the sequence has been: parliamentary, then turned authoritarian, then changed to presidential.)

[–] gustavus 16 hours ago

Counterpoint when things aren't going well you may need major adjustments. For example The Civil War, the Great Depression etc.

> In over 50 years not a single parliamentary republic has turned authoritarian, in fact only Sri Lanka in the 70s has done so since world war 2.

Also I take issue with this stawnt as basically no Presidential Republic that had a functioning Presidential Republic prior to WW2 has gone authoritarian. What your pointing to has more to do with the overall legitimacy of governments themselves.

In addition your claim itself is false as we have plenty of parliamentary republics that devolve into authoritarian dictatorships including but not limited to - Mynamar - Nigeria - Ghana - Uganda - South Korea (Second Republic) - Syria - Pakistan experiencing various military coups.

[–] PyWoody 18 hours ago

It's hip to be square.