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points by xenadu02 1 day ago | 0 comments
Stocks are backed by something real (in general). There's a business. That business can't just manufacture new stock out of thin air without going through a regulatory process to do so and the total number of shares is publicly known.

Furthermore the institutions that allow you to trade mostly aren't taking positions on the stock price and in theory there are jail-time consequences if they cheat. In practice that isn't always the case but at least there is some limit to what they can do to screw over their customers.

These contract markets have absolutely none of that. If they decide to take up positions to stuff their own pockets you probably wouldn't even know it and it wouldn't be illegal either. They can make up contracts for anything and everything without limit. If they aren't front-running their own customers then they're idiots because that's free money. And they can just lie about the odds as they like so if bets aren't going the way they want just tip the scales.

Oh and they have absolute control over whether any event counts as success or not and how to handle edge cases. There's no one you can appeal to.

Maybe they operate above-board in all aspects. Maybe they don't. No one really knows.

[–] curt15 1 day ago
Are weather derivatives backed by something real?
[–] scoofy 1 day ago
Futures contracts exist as insurance contracts. The fact that people can trade them as gambling items doesn't mean they exist as gambling.

Almost anything can be gambling if you make it gambling. Effectively all the assets in the securities world that can be bought and sold as derivatives exist to facilitate and existing industry by offsetting risk.

There is a world of difference between someone treating corn futures as a roulette wheel, and an entire industry existing whose sole purpose is pure gambling with all of the negative externalities that fall out of that:

>I reported an Iranian missile strike... then gamblers who had wagered millions on a deranged bet threatened to kill me

https://www.dailymail.com/yourmoney/article-15651989/polymar...

[–] mrandish 1 day ago
Seasonal bets on regional weather are a way for farm and energy businesses to hedge against volatility from unusual weather.

If you're holding Florida grapefruit futures, hedging against an early freeze is an economic trade on the future value of a real thing.

[–] toss1 1 day ago
IDK of anything more backing the derivatives than the funds of the bettors, and the guy with the hot-air gun heating up the official thermometer at the Paris airport... [0]

[0] https://www.businessinsider.com/polymarket-paris-weather-bet...

[–] potsandpans 1 day ago
> Stocks are backed by something real (in general).

Cordially, this is kind of like saying in a discussion about mathematics, "numbers are backed by something real." And hand waving over a whole suite of objects that have no real backing at all.

Options and futures contracts have existed in some form for pretty much the entire history of commerce. The heart of the problem is that people need to be able to take risk for some endeavours, and want to have financial instruments to mitigate that risk.

In blunt terms: if it's ok for the farmer and the baker to agree on a forward futures contract for the price of wheat so they can run their business, then it should be ok for both parties to sell their contracts on the secondary market to get liquidity (e.g. a farmer is fully leveraged in seeds, has the promise to sell wheat for price x at time y, but needs cash now to fix whatever). The bank should then be able to monetize it's exposure and sell calls on the open market. At this point we're not trading on anything "real" anymore than betting whether the harvest season will be good (or bad)

That secondary market is as real as anything on kalshi. So how would you propose to craft laws to mark one as gambling and the other as investing?

Why wouldn't they be regulated any differently?

[–] enoint 19 hours ago
Well put. Comparing the CFTC and the SEC, we see equities enjoying some consumer protection. How would you answer your own question? Do under-defined bets on prediction markets necessitate a third regulator?
[–] ReflectedImage 1 day ago
For the avoidance of all doubt, gambling, crypto, stock market trading and forex are exactly the same thing.