[–] ModernTimes 1 day ago
[–] bnmathm 1 day ago
Even when I've been able to track down hosts, registrars, etc for scraped duplicates of sites, and report to all and Google, Microsoft Safety Scanner, etc -- nobody acts (or certainly not in any reasonable enough time to be useful).
In one case the scammer was using our own logo served directly from a source we could replace with Cloudflare rewrites. So the hijacked logo became "THIS IS A SCAM SITE" while we replaced the one on production.
[–] brian_cunnie 1 day ago
I act. I receive about 5 takedown notices every day--the curse of running an open source DNS service (nip.io/sslip.io).
I've received over 1,000 takedown requests, but none came from Cloudflare or Google. Most of them come from Netcraft, Phishlabs, and doppel.com.
[–] rsync 1 day ago
Are you getting takedown requests from people who don’t understand how DNS works, or… are they actually suggesting that your particular DNS server filter particular results?
[–] rawling 22 hours ago
They seem to invite it
[–] arcfour 1 day ago
This is literally false. They are one of the few hosts I have dealt with that actually does NOT do this. Their abuse reporting form even has check boxes that are optional to forward it to the underlying host and the owner. If you leave them unchecked they don't forward anything.
I don't know where you got your information from but it's quite literally the opposite of reality.
Now, whether or not they actually act on it depends on whether they are proxying the site or merely providing authoritative DNS. If they are just providing DNS they will continue to provide it and deny your report and I think that's stupid and frustrating. If they are proxying it they will put up a block page in front of it which is meh.
[–] bvcp 1 day ago
[–] toomuchtodo 1 day ago
[–] hoppyhoppy2 1 day ago
I'd have trouble believing that U.S. Attorney General Todd Blanche would care very much, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to try.
[–] MisterMunchkin 21 hours ago
Upload a scam ad? No problemo.
[–] LorenPechtel 6 hours ago
[–] albert_e 1 day ago
The scale is mind-boggling. The number 404 is poetic. Any possible (mis) spelling of the brand will open the "intended" site - you will never see a 404 :D. Auto-correct on steroids indeed.
And I imagine this sort of thing must be happening across hundreds of markets not just US. And possibly not just food delivery but other types of ecommerce as well.
[–] ryandrake 16 hours ago
This crazy proliferation of top level domains has to be part of the problem. Every time a new one is conjured up, legitimate businesses and organizations need to scramble and buy them before a scammer inevitably snaps it up and starts scamming on it.
Also, the fact that web browsers are insanely trying to downplay and hide web site domain names and paths is also not helping. https://totallylegitjerseymikes.delivery/ should NOT get the same visual treatment as https://www.jerseymikes.com/
[–] fc417fc802 15 hours ago
What are you suggesting browsers ought to do here? Sure ICANN is a very flawed solution and the gTLD cash grab has reached absurd levels but what are you expecting browser vendors to do? For example .net .de and .delivery are all equally legitimate TLDs according to both the central body and all the infrastructure providers.
[–] voakbasda 14 hours ago
[–] ryandrake 14 hours ago
Of course, I'll admit there is a danger there of creating a two-tier domain system, where the "big guy$" get the green Checkmark of Legitimacy or whatever in browsers, and everyone else, including mypersonalwebsite.org gets the shaft. I don't have all the answers but surely we are capable of at least crowdsourcing a list of known scam sites and surfacing them at the browser level.
[–] 6510 14 hours ago
If there is a banana.tw in your neigbourhood, loading banana.delivery could trigger a popup asking if you were looking for banana.tw
[–] mrguyorama 1 day ago
Why are they allowed to direct you to literal scams? Why are they allowed to profit off of literal scams?
This affects the company I work for, who gets called every single day with customer complaints from people who clicked the scam link from a search ad when looking for our site.
Our site has existed for over a decade. There's no justifiable reason that a company who's brand is known by every single grocer or merchant to somehow show up under a literal fly by night scam company pretending to have the same name. It's unacceptable.
My sister got scammed by this exact mechanism just last week.
[–] jonhohle 18 hours ago
[–] augment_me 16 hours ago
[–] ndriscoll 15 hours ago
[–] augment_me 14 hours ago
1) Google has more money than anyone who can file for litigation
2) You don't want your brand reputation damaged
So you can choose to either complain, spend a load of money in pointless juridical processes you will lose, or just pay up for the ads now, which will in the end pay for part of it at least since people are interested in the product.
So the fully rational choice right now you can do is: if brand damage costs > ad costs, buy ads. If not, then it's fine and let people get scammed because its out of your hands.
[–] ndriscoll 14 hours ago
[–] 6510 14 hours ago
[–] Viliam1234 10 hours ago
Google doesn't even try anymore. The easier way to distribute malware to people is simply to pay Google to pretend that you are someone else.
(Similarly it's been months since I last saw a non-scam ad on YouTube. Sure, Elon Musk will send me tons of money made by AI brokers as soon as I give him my bank account. And the AI-generated video is great proof of how you can lose 50% body weight in 21 days just by sitting in a chair and nodding your head according to the special secret exercise routine.)
[–] mlmonkey 1 day ago
[–] lokar 1 day ago
[–] hedora 1 day ago
[–] selfhoster1312 1 day ago
Residential proxies on the other hand i don't think have any legitime usecase. I would support people working around Youtube to export interesting videos to Bittorrent. But what's happening is malicious actors going around rate limiting to run bad-behaving scrapers on smaller sites. That, and much worse is the residential proxy economy.
[0] https://www.fdn.fr/the-fdn-and-gitoyen-networks-are-blocked-...
[–] pixl97 1 day ago
[–] ModernTimes 1 day ago
[–] dismalpedigree 19 hours ago
[–] LorenPechtel 5 hours ago
[–] Crunchified 1 day ago
Brands and their ordering providers that watch for their site loading under someone else's domain, or for checkout sessions that never reach the real payment provider, are well placed to catch these sites early.
It can be detected if the IT folks look in the right places. I suppose a SCAM ALERT page could be presented to a reverse proxy when discovered.
[–] StilesCrisis 1 day ago
[–] ano-ther 1 day ago
[–] StilesCrisis 1 day ago
[–] chezzwizz 15 hours ago
Shouldn't it be though? What is the precedent here? Isn't anyone concerned about the slow boiling frog any more?
[–] pixl97 15 hours ago
Honestly it's something that happens with my family quite often. I'll start putting stuff in a cart then someone else changes their mind and we switch to another place to order. And it feels like this happens all the time.
[–] trollbridge 1 day ago
[–] Ekaros 1 day ago
[–] warkdarrior 1 day ago
[–] BeetleB 1 day ago
In the old days, delivery was limited to pizza, and occasionally Chinese. You'd call the restaurant directly and place the order. The only possible way a scammer would get you is if you called the wrong number. That's why we had the Yellow Pages.
It seems from comments here that Google is a lot less reliable than the Yellow Pages were.
[–] foxglacier 1 day ago
[–] TacticalCoder 16 hours ago
I also block every single domain whose name contains non-ASCII character (no Unicode domain names for me / no punnycode: just get lost).
So maybe, maybe, maybe that after all I'll be moving to whitelisting domains. I know some do it and I know it's hard to do right. But some do just that.
It may be time for companies to give the list of all the domains we need to whitelist for their site to function.
Better yet: it may be time for companies to use as few domains as possible.
I don't care about your ads partners. I don't care about your surveillance (pardon, telemetry) partners.
It's too early to tell but a mindset shift may be coming.
[–] fc417fc802 14 hours ago
> no Unicode domain names for me / no punnycode: just get lost
If you exclusively speak a latin language that works but the vast majority of people in the world require a unicode domain name if they want the name to be in their native script.
[–] joezydeco 16 hours ago
[–] bigfloppa 18 hours ago
[–] znnajdla 16 hours ago
[–] chezzwizz 15 hours ago
Perhaps we should first discuss semantics at the line of war. When does some activity which impedes, diminishes, or otherwise blocks the interests of a peoples' rights in such a way that the word "crime" is not sufficient? Maybe it really all does come down to behavioural and financial incentives. That is to say that it is probably war when the judicial, legislative, and executive lack the resources or will to address an injustice and the idea of "war" becomes the only answer. As radical as that may seem, it literally needs to be considered for every action ten years or more down the road at the current pace of technology.
[–] BatchJob 1 day ago
Maybe its time to turn off the web. Its only going to get worse.
[–] augment_me 16 hours ago
[–] jonhohle 18 hours ago
We’ve been trained to ignore the domain name and accept putting sensitive content into random third party providers. How does a scam site look any different?
[–] cowlevel 1 day ago
[–] gruez 20 hours ago
[–] grumple 19 hours ago
[–] emacdona 1 day ago
Either:
- They actually decided to remove one of the most annoying things about the modern web... and replace it with something very similar to tell you that they removed it, or...
- They found some legal justification for getting me to accept their cookies for dismissing the "no cookie banner banner"
Either choice makes me think less of them.
[edit: added extra newlines so bullets showed up correctly]
[–] rationalist 1 day ago
[–] handoflixue 1 day ago
Then it links to a page which is even more explicit about how little they collect: https://www.infohawk.com/cookies
[–] emacdona 1 day ago
My point is: they did all the necessary work required (no third party tracking cookies) to NOT HAVE TO show a banner...
... and then they chose to show a banner.
[–] kasey_junk 19 hours ago
I took down a fully static public web page that had basically no traffic and no cookies. It literally just said that a domain that I had was not associated with a popular brand name that was on a different TLD so don’t email me about it.
I got as many emails complaining there was no cookie banner as I had previously gotten about the brand. There is some brand of privacy crank out there that likes to harass people about those banners (and similar gdpr regs).
[–] basilikum 19 hours ago
If you just show the actual content in a readable format that uses the screenspace people will get scared and think of your site as unprofessional. People are so used to these popups, modals and annoyances that interrupt, take away screen space from and cover the content that they expect them.
[–] emacdona 18 hours ago
Laughter is the best medicine.
[–] williamdclt 18 hours ago
[–] akersten 1 day ago
Is it just some JS on bad.com shuttling assets from the real site and displaying them on the fake one? Shouldn't the right CORS headers from the real site prevent this?
Is it a real browser running on a server somewhere visiting the real site, and then rendering that output on a <canvas> on the fake site to avoid the browser's built in protections against this kind of thing? And throwing up their own credit card entry form when the time is right?
Maybe the answer's in there somewhere. Too much Claudish to parse through.
[–] mik3y 1 day ago
So you don't need to worry about CORS from the perspective of the web app, nor need a real browser, because the victim is only ever interacting with the evilsite endpoints.
Certainly there are ways the target site could try to thwart this (i.e. detect unusual request patterns from wherever the proxy server is fetching from; client-side JS to detect the site being hosted on a foreign domain; etc). But at that point it's an arms race.
[–] hnburnsy 1 day ago
And yet Google says sideloading is where users are getting hijacked. FFS
The hackers should pass on the order to the real restaurant to reduce suspicion.
>Google's public Ads Transparency pages now show "Can't find ad" for the creatives and "No ads found" for the domains we checked, which suggests Google has taken them down
So much for transparency, removing evidence that Google served ads on these impersonating domains
[–] jihadjihad 1 day ago
jummyjonhsanbich
jummyjorsandvotch
Can’t wait to bring a big ole box of Jummy Jor sandvotches into the office on Monday.[–] albert_e 1 day ago
i wonder if the malicious sites will need an adpative tranform of reverse-proxied content so that the real content fetched from real site is updated to insert these "correct" spellings so that the customer dont find it ... suspicious?
[–] skinfaxi 21 hours ago
[–] albert_e 20 hours ago
[–] LightBug1 17 hours ago
[–] 0x4e 1 day ago
[–] StilesCrisis 1 day ago
[–] logicallee 1 day ago
What could we possibly do to limit the damage from this? Malicious Chrome extensions can also rewrite entire web pages, so if bad actors purchase or infiltrate legitimate extensions, they can also put users at risk.
We are considering continuing work on our own browser, since we could ship certificates to use client-side, but it's a recursive problem since our users would have to get the first trusted version before they could trust updates to it. If they have trouble reaching our site in the first place, through poisoned Google search results, poisoned DNS, and poisoned IP routing, then it is difficult to do this.
[–] IncreasePosts 1 day ago
[–] logicallee 1 day ago
[1] https://stateofutopia.com/laws/2/law2/law2.html
Save that page (with curl or wget), you should get this sha256:
BFE524880867A84C9A438A057734B58954B860843BDB5B15C9E4ED70C534126D (updated after I removed a script injection attack).
though if you're reading this comment through a proxied Hacker News clone, someone might rewrite that hash to their version of what they want our law to say.
[–] protocolture 1 day ago
[–] human_eyes 1 day ago
[–] executive 1 day ago
Simple and effective
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corru...