Hacker News

points by glouwbug 1 day ago | 0 comments

Mine's from this game itself, when speaking with Morpheus:

"The individual desires judgment. Without that desire, the cohesion of groups is impossible, and so is civilization. The human being created civilization not because of a willingness but because of a need to be assimilated into higher orders of structure and meaning. God was a dream of good government. You will soon have your God, and you will make it with your own hands."

[–] emmanueloga_ 1 day ago

I was thinking "that's really good writing", so I search lead writer for Deus Ex, points to [1]. Makes me want to read a book from her, but seems like she mostly writes for games, afaict.

EDIT: I had the wrong writer. Sheldon Pacotti was the lead writer of the original Deus Ex (2000). He wrote the AI dialogue, so the Morpheus quote is almost certainly his. Chris Todd and Austin Grossman also wrote for the game. Mary DeMarle wrote the later prequels (Human Revolution, Mankind Divided).

Pacotti has more books on his site [2]. Anyone familiar?

EDIT 2: Someone recommended Demiurge in this very post!

The linked article calls Deus Ex "pulp, not prophecy." I think "pulp" is a method, not a statement about quality (not sure if the author of the article has the same thing in mind).

I also love the pulpy/noir dialogue in Max Payne first games (1, 2). What are other games with good writing like this? (not necesary pulp)

1: https://www.mobygames.com/person/39957/mary-c-demarle/

2: https://sheldonpacotti.com

[–] 44mkultra69 14 hours ago

Can't explain the curiosity but I am wondering why you would consider this "good writing"?

The "but" alone loses the whole damn case the dude is trying to make ...

[–] jl6 1 day ago

This was all a prototype for a much larger LLM.

[–] ky3 1 day ago

Bourbaki was a dream of correct math precisely written up, free of errors, ambiguities, and poor terminology.

[–] analog8374 1 day ago

Replace "judgment" with "validation" and consider social media in that light. Validation of identity. Validation of worldview. And if you signal right, a ladder you can climb.

It's so mammalian.

[–] Yokolos 20 hours ago

Aren't judgment and validation describing the same thing in this context? That's what makes the quote so interesting, imo.

[–] glouwbug 14 hours ago

Machines indeed know judgement but not feeling, which adds another layer to already excellent writing

[–] analog8374 14 hours ago

Yeah. Validation is the better term tho.More neutral and popular.

[–] LarsDu88 1 day ago

I haven't had an LLM spout out such wisdom yet.

Perhaps we need a better prototype for a much larger system...

[–] manapause 1 day ago

Right now we use AI as an accelerant to expand our abilities across domains similar but different enough to be interesting. Gaining Knowledge is a side effect of all of us knocking out every rainy day project we kicked around for years.

It was all fun and games until I created a personal psychotherapist and realized that I don’t have a fear of AI because I know how it works. There is an uncharted landscape of horrifying growth when we leave our safe space and take these tools somewhere else entirely.

[–] hyperman1 1 day ago

Did you ask it for wisdom? I once asked it for 20 quotes that (RIP Terry Pratchett) sound very meaningfull without meaning very much. ChatGPT obliged with 20 pieces of deep-sounding total nonsense.

[–] userulluipeste 1 day ago

The Morpheus' quoted text is also nonsense. It was hardly the judgement that kept individuals together and led to civilization building. This kind of logic may seem plausible only to an individual of nowadays' condition, to whom the covered basic needs faded out of attention. The basic needs (with the need for security at the center of them all) was sufficient reason for group cohesion, time and time again.

[–] miek 1 day ago

In the times about which you speak, Judgement was central to encouraging good behavior and behavior that prioritized the survival of the group over the individual, as well as discouraging the opposite through shame and punishment. Groups and civilizations fall apart without it.

[–] 93po 1 day ago

long after the bucket has forgotten the well, the water still remembers the shape of thirst

[–] RetroTechie 1 day ago

Maybe their creators have more to learn than their creations...