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points by draxen 2 days ago | 0 comments

I avoided using alpine-based containers ever since finding out a lot of Linux server software is actually Linux + SystemD software. The union set API of both Linux and SystemD seems to be the default "Linux API" today.

[–] otterley 2 days ago

Container images rarely ship with an init service of any kind (systemd or otherwise); the expectation is that your application is the root process. This includes Alpine-based images.

[–] puzzlingcaptcha 2 days ago

but alpine famously does not use systemd but openrc?

[–] vel0city 2 days ago

That's their point. The software they want to use often assumes its being run on a platform with systemd, so running that software on Alpine which makes a point to not use systemd causes challenges for them compared to using a different distro.

[–] sam_lowry_ 2 days ago

I use alpine-based containers whenever I can just to keep the world safer from SystemD rotting Linux.

Never enabled sshd there... except on my PostmarketOS PineBook Pro... oh shit!

[–] andunie 2 days ago

What is the argument against systemd?

Is it mainly that it is too big?

I feel like everybody still loves the unix philosophy, but the previous tools were too bad, systemd just filled user demand for easier tools.

The moment someone makes a pid 1 software that is good and still modular, open and pluggable I think that will be an instant success.

[–] pona-a 2 days ago

Yes the other tools at the time were pretty bad, but after and around the time systemd came out, they did get much better than the sysv-init days.

Check out dinit, it's basically the same declarative philosophy as systemd, but without the bloat, and with a much simpler config API. Or s6 if you specifically care about "modular", though unless you're an embedded dev, you probably don't actually want that.

[–] sam_lowry_ 2 days ago

Parts of it are good, like systemd-boot, parts of it are horrendous, like systemd-logind.

But systemd is not a technical problem, it's Redhat (and IBM) having too much control over what happens to the init system.

And of course there is Pottering and his vile Microsoft stint, then another vile stint to enforce age verification on Linux.

[–] otterley 2 days ago

Eh, HNers are just noisier and crankier than most. The silent majority are fine with (and even like) systemd. I have no desire to go back to SysV init.