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points by GuB-42 4 days ago | 0 comments
No, we are just seeing a push towards Nvidia wanting to make money.

Nothing stops you from giving Nvidia half a million for their latest and greatest AI GPUs, unless you are in China I guess, but China does very well despite the export control.

It is just classic market segmentation, the thing Nvidia and just about every company that can benefit from it has done for decades. Cloud providers are ready to pay a lot of money, consumers wanting local AI have a lower budget, and gamers even lower. But a low budget is greater than zero, and there is still money to be made on these markets. But they also don't want to compete against themselves, so they are going to find ways of crippling enterprise-class workloads on consumer hardware.

It used to be that they crippled high precision arithmetic on consumer hardware, because it was a differentiating factor, but AI doesn't care about high precision, so now, it is something else.

[–] K0balt 26 minutes ago
You are surely correct in the base motivation. There is a problem though, and I’m not sure what the name for it is, or if there is even a mature conceptual framework for it: opportunistic enclosure.

Social processes that pull towards freedom tend to be low investment, chaotic, individualistic processes; usually just working within the voids between enclosed spaces. There are projects of significant complexity working in these spaces, but they tend to be focused on their individual goals rather than the preservation of those voids.

Social processes that pull towards structural control, in contrast, tend to be well organised, funded, and focused mostly on exerting that control as a means to further some other goal.

With a high diversity of strategic actors and their highly divergent goals, almost any movement in a space of technological change can be seen as an opportunity to implement a ratchet that encloses more ground in the service of commercial or political vision. The end result is creeping enclosure of every active commons, while the expansion of opportunities occurs only at the frontiers of technology or in the abandoned areas with minimal commercial value (until they become revitalised, at least)

[–] Schlagbohrer 4 days ago
I can't wait until we have real competition against NVIDIA, whether it is from a Chinese chip maker or someone else. Hopefully then these kinds of intentional crippling of hardware/firmware will be avoidable by buying an equivalent product from another firm.
[–] FuriouslyAdrift 3 days ago
AMD has been #1 for HPC and #2 in AI for a very long while. The currently shipping Helios systems go toe to toe with nVidia's next gen that aren't even shipping, yet (by nVidias own numbers).

These are multi-million dollar datacenter systems, not consumer. If you mean the consumer market, it's coming but it's going to be 2028-29 most likely (if the bubbled hasn't popped by then).

Strix Point is quite good but not the same thing as a DGX, though. Same idea, different methodology.

[–] smallmancontrov 3 days ago
AMD's "datacenter HPC without consumer HPC" strategy was one of the biggest corporate whiffs in history. If AMD had taken consumer GPGPU seriously at any point in the decade leading up to LLM takeoff, they wouldn't have had to stand on the sidelines for years as NVDA charged 80% margin on matrix multiplication. They could have had 1/2 or even 1/1 market cap compared to NVDA. Instead, they have a tenth, and even that's largely grace in the forward looking estimations.
[–] Fr0styMatt88 3 days ago
Haha that’s been the AMD story when it comes to graphics in general.

I miss the old days when they released enthusiast products like the R9 295X2. Though that’s just the gaming enthusiast market in general declining (not that this happened organically though, it feels like a deliberate choice).

[–] SR2Z 3 days ago
Ha! That was certainly a card you had to be an enthusiast to put up with, with its 500W TDP :)

I have many pleasant memories of keeping myself warm just by opening Witcher 3 on my R9 390.

[–] FuriouslyAdrift 3 days ago
It's less AMD not doing commercial GPGPU than nVidia completely staying out of the PC and server market. Remember AMD competes with both of them (nVidia and Intel) and is smaller than both.

AMDs revenue this quarter just passed Intels for the first time in history and they still are dominating in the HPC market which is fairly immune to the AI bubble (while also selling everything they can build at a high premium to AI datacenters).

AMDs margins on their Instinct datacenter GPUs is nearly as good as nVidia's. They just can't get contract volume at TSMC to make more because nVidia buys all of it.

[–] podocarp 4 days ago
Even for things like the huawei ascend, what makes them crap for price to perf I think is still dram. They actually cost more than nvidia clusters last I checked. Just like how regular laptops and phones are now being squeezed upwards to become closer (and uncompetitive with) apple devices.
[–] tiahura 3 days ago
China is never going to let anyone under its control _release_ AI that is capable of disrupting world order.
[–] sidewndr46 4 days ago
Given the history of prohibition in the past few centuries, it wouldn't surprise me if it is much easier to buy Nvidia products in China than in the US. The price is much higher most likely, but the actual transaction is likely easier.
[–] smolder 3 days ago
In China, you can give them a 4090 and have its ram doubled to 48GB with some soldering and custom firmware, so yeah, pretty much.
[–] embedding-shape 4 days ago
Unless the US somehow differs from the EU in some major ways, can't you just walk into a store and buy a NVIDIA GPU? Not sure how much easier it can get. And yes, it's as easy in China too, walk into store, point at GPU, fork over the money, you get your GPU. Like everywhere else, except the US I suppose?
[–] CamperBob2 3 days ago
Yes and no. Yes, you can still buy high-end prosumer Blackwell hardware at retail in the US, but not without going through a KYC process that didn't exist a couple of months ago. The writing is on the proverbial wall.
[–] giwook 3 days ago
> but China does very well despite the export control

They're still getting plenty of Nvidia GPUs. Someone in Jensen Huang's inner circle apparently runs a number of companies in Singapore that have been found to source GPUs at scale. The catch is that she has close ties to Beijing and is suspected of working closely with their government, potentially even spying for them.

This was reported just a week or two ago and is just one example of how China is still getting their hands on resources they're supposedly unable to get.

[–] zelphirkalt 3 days ago
There are so many ways trade goes in and out of China, and so many trading partners, I think it is next to impossible to prevent them from getting what they want, if they are willing to spend the money.