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points by plastic041 4 days ago | 0 comments

I know who he is and I don't care what he does with ai.

To me these little challenges are about improving programming skills, showing creativity, and mostly just for fun. So using LLMs on 'codevember' feels weird. That doesn't mean I'm blaming him for it, I'm just having a hard time accepting it.

[–] agilek 4 days ago

If coding is for you about writing beautiful code, then yes.

Many of us are in the game because of the love for building things.

[–] soon_to_be_sb 4 days ago

So you get the same joy from building things even when you outsource the "building" to some other person?

[–] Cthulhu_ 4 days ago

A big chunk of the software development industry is not typing code but figuring out what code to write in the first place.

If you want to draw out the construction analogy, ask a mason or carpenter if they'd rather be an architect. (a lot would probably not want to, but I know a few people in the trades that can do a lot more than just welding two pieces of steel together, it's just that their job is the welding part.

Actually this will be one of the challenges; LLM assisted coding has empowered people to be more decision makers, lead developers, architects, etc than code monkeys. But it's a pyramid, there's only so many lead developers you feasibly need on a project.)

[–] soon_to_be_sb 4 days ago

> empowered people to be more decision makers, lead developers, architects

Add a "pseudo" before each and we would be in total agreement.

[–] bsenftner 4 days ago

Writing software and having software running on a computer is not the point of all of this. The point is to then use these tools to improve your physical world outside of the computer, and to use the computer to improve your mind and then apply that to how you live in the physical living world. The computer is not your friend, your colleague, or your enemy, it's a screwdriver the over excited gave a celebrity complex.

[–] JoshuaRogers 4 days ago

Do I get the same satisfaction from defining and directing a project that my team at work implements?

Yes. Writing code was always fun but running a project is itself a systems engineering problem. Especially if you’re the one defining project scope.

So yes, absolutely it is the same level of joy. The code I wrote was just the method needed to solve the low-level problem but it was never the entire problem space.

I can see my fingerprints all over the user facing design and I can see all the places where I agonized over different approaches to maximize user enjoyment. Seeing the solutions manifest is thrilling frankly. I see users of LLMs as filling a similar role to mine in this respect.

That said, I understand that not everyone enjoys the entirety of the problem space to the same degree and so I can see how a reasonable group of people might not find the higher-level puzzle as enjoyable as its low-level counterpart just as there are those who might find the low-level tedious instead of rewarding.

[–] soon_to_be_sb 4 days ago

There is a point in the LLM usage spectrum where I feel that I am not really understanding the stuff I am creating. I can have the LLM write some code, without starting to feel this. But it is only a small amount of code...

[–] properbrew 4 days ago

Imagine you're getting an extension to your house. You might not be an architect, an electrician, a plasterer, a carpenter, an interior designer, a grounds worker, a gardener, a labourer or any other profession I've missed off (apologies) but you get a great sense of joy from designing and seeing your extension built.

You outsourced literally everything, you didn't lay a single brick, didn't calculate a single beams "load-bearing" capacity but at the end you have this awesome extension you can live in that brings you joy. There's going to be snags here and there as there always is with anything, even if you crafted and did it all by hand, but seeing it built and guiding and adapting things along the way is the fun part.

[–] Jtarii 4 days ago

This analogy only makes sense if you think there is zero value in actually crafting something yourself.

[–] raddan 4 days ago

The parent poster’s post is amusing because I did all of those things. I framed out an addition to my house. I demoed all of the living spaces, installed insulation, hung drywall, did the trim (which was difficult to learn!), installed windows. I also built a patio (with a shovel!), built a fence, planted an orchard, etc. I did these things because, although I have the money to pay others, it was 1) deeply satisfying and 2) I wanted it done right. I think lots of technical people think that we can’t do it right because it’s not our area but—if you care, you will do it right.

I hired somebody to do the toilets. Fuck that.

[–] botanrice 3 days ago

yeah man the point of software development is to develop software that is useful, helpful, thoughtful, creative, productive, or just cool. For me and most non hardcore engineers like on hackernews, the outcome is all that matters.

[–] lrvick 4 days ago

Not OP but if it comes to Claude or OpenAI use, that does make me roll my eyes.

I keep my local AI rack under my 3D printer because they are the same type of tool to me.

[–] plastic041 4 days ago

> If coding is for you about writing beautiful code

...when did I ever said that?

[–] ftchd 4 days ago

What are you saying then?

And why are you implying that using AI does not improve those skills?

You can learn nothing or become a master both ways. AI will just give you some tangible results first but in the end it depends solely on you.

[–] plastic041 4 days ago

> What are you saying then?

I literally said that "I'm just having hard time accepting it."

> And why are you implying that using AI does not improve those skills?

I'm not.

[–] ftchd 4 days ago

So "hacker man yelling at the claude"

[–] plastic041 4 days ago

I can't understand how and why you keep thinking of things I never said or even remotely implied.

[–] ktallett 4 days ago

Creativity is about coming up with your vision with the tools at hand in my eyes. I would still argue in situations like this you need a sense of style to understand what works and what doesn't.