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points by dhx 4 days ago | 0 comments
My complaints are generic to human-computer interfaces. Providing small icons in close proximity is poor design per [1]. Providing icons without text is also poor design, as summarised at [2]. We can argue more about how detailed labels should be--as I would equally complain about Gnome's context labels too. For example, "Open with..." is more useful as a menu with maximum 5-10 other applications to choose from. For example, will "Compress..." replace/remove my original file if I click on this action, or just create a compressed archive alongside the original?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27s_law

[2] https://www.nngroup.com/articles/icon-usability/

[–] anal_reactor 4 days ago
Halfway through writing a response I've realized that Americans have a completely different approach to icons compared to the rest of the world. In the US most traffic signs have text information on them, while in most other countries most signs are icon-only. Text is usually reserved for exceptional situations that cannot easily be represented with an icon. So we're going to be talking past each other because you'll insist that a "yield" sign absolutely needs the "yield" word, while I'll insist that it should not.
[–] wffurr 4 days ago
What if traffic signs had text for many years and then suddenly a bunch were replaced by new ones with only a new icon and no visible explanation of what the icon means?

I think the analogy to traffic signs is flawed even further. Traffic signs icons are also standardized, have been for many years, and are taught in required safety classes. Not even close to the situation with mystery UIs in computer programs.

[–] anal_reactor 4 days ago
> What if traffic signs had text for many years and then suddenly a bunch were replaced by new ones with only a new icon and no visible explanation of what the icon means?

That's... exactly how meaningful icons are born. First you put icon with text, and once everyone understands the meaning of the icon, you remove the text, because it's not necessary anymore.

Do you think that US drivers would be left completely clueless when seeing the "yield" sign without the text, or would they recognize the icon?

> Not even close to the situation with mystery UIs in computer programs.

Android UI offers three buttons at the bottom of the screen. There's never been any text there. Yet somehow, most people have no issues using them. How come? Follow-up question: if you wanted to put text there, whete exactly would you do that, and what would it say? In real life, what about public toilets? Many places don't have a text "toilet", they just have a symbol of two stick figures, one wearing a skirt, yet we're all fine. Emergency exit? Sometimes it's without text, just a green light with a white stickman running through a door. Red X is also widely recognized as "closed" or "don't enter".

Finally, please tell me what you see in top-right corner of a window in your computer. If you see spelled out words "minimize", "maximize", "close" then yeah. Otherwise I'd like to ask you what makes these three buttons so special that they don't need text.

Payment terminals have green-yellow-red buttons at the bottom. No text, just icons and colors.

Point is, "icon without text" is an idea that exists in the wild and works.

[–] wffurr 4 days ago
>> That's... exactly how meaningful icons are born. First you put icon with text, and once everyone understands the meaning of the icon, you remove the text, because it's not necessary anymore.

> First you put icon with text

They skipped this step. It's a really, really important step. And you have it to leave it for a while.

[–] anal_reactor 3 days ago
Office 97 already had exactly the same icons for cut-copy-paste. Rename icon is from Windows 8.1 (2013). Share icon is present in Windows XP. Trash can appears in Windows 95, although the meaning "to delete" was indeed introduced in Windows 11, previously it was the trash itself.

In other words, people who were born alongside with four of these icons are already sending their own kids to schools.