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points by hvb2 5 days ago | 0 comments
Uber and Airbnb are unambiguous good for the world?

You might want to look up Barcelona and the issues airbnb causes there. Basically it follows out the cities as you can make way more money doing Airbnb than renting to people living/working there.

As to Uber, I'm not sure if the driver experience is unambiguous good. For some, sure. For the ones that depend on it, I'm sure they'll disagree

[–] tt24 5 days ago
Airbnb is a convenient scapegoat in Barcelona. The service it provides is an unambiguous good.

Uber drivers are welcome to no longer drive for uber if they don’t enjoy the experience.

[–] lenerdenator 4 days ago
> Uber drivers are welcome to no longer drive for uber if they don’t enjoy the experience.

Are they?

The drivers have a certain set of capital and skills, and Uber (and to a lesser extent, Lyft) have created a near-monopoly on the market to buy services produced using that capital and skills. Since the ability to execute a transaction in that market is severely compromised if you don't work by Uber's rules, you are effectively outside of the marketplace if you no longer drive for Uber. You make no money. You go broke. You don't have the capital necessary to effectively compete in the market for giving rides in exchange for money. They own your skills and capital in all but the legal sense.

If there were either real, multi-company competition for Uber's market share, or a larger amount of regulation upon their monopoly, it'd be a different story.

Of course, there are people who think that monopolies are good, but that seems to be counterintuitive to anyone with a basic grasp of human nature and history.

[–] cowlevel 4 days ago
Why don't we make another Uber, a third and fourth and fifth Uber until prices converge to the market optimum?

This isn't a rhetorical question. As far as I know there are only two globally - Uber and Lyft. If most of what you need is a web server and a lawyer, shouldn't there be ten of these in every city?

[–] Dylan16807 4 days ago
"Car" and "follow GPS" are a set of capital and skills shared by most adults. Uber doesn't own most adults. You're supposed to have marketable skills on top of that.

The skill of knowing all the roads stopped being important a decade or two before Uber even started.

[–] tfrancisl 5 days ago
> Uber drivers are welcome to no longer drive for uber if they don’t enjoy the experience.

This is obviously a fallacy under our current economic system; workers are not "free to choose whatever job/occupation" they'd like. Their circumstances (material conditions) dictate what they can and cannot do for work, and in some places, driving for Uber is about it, at least for a part time gig that can fit around a primary job (since many Americans at least must work in excess of 50 hours a week to afford food and rent).

So, instead of punching down and saying "man, just get a better job" we could recognize the realities of the world and hope we can make the conditions of drivers better. Uber, or a system like it, at least if we are forced to have car-centric infrastructure, should be a net good. At the moment it is not.

[–] Dylan16807 4 days ago
I dunno. This is a job that didn't exist until recently. Society isn't structured around it and I don't think it's punching down to say people can skip that specific job.

It should have more protections too, I'm not arguing against those. I just think "it's the only job some people can get" is often a bad argument. And it's often used to perpetuate bad systems.

[–] cowlevel 4 days ago
Things existing generally can't be ignored as their mere existence can have higher-order effects. For example your landlord can now raise your rent higher and say "why don't you just drive Uber to pay this", and even if he doesn't actually say that, people's extra Uber income still raises the average amount that people can pay for rent, which raises the amount that landlords can charge for rent and still fill their apartments.
[–] logdahl 5 days ago
That is not at all how it works in practice though. Where I live, Uber has basically fixed the rate of all taxi companies. Effectively, if you order an Uber, you will 80% of the time get a normal taxi, except they earn less.
[–] whimsicalism 5 days ago
That is because you live somewhere that is poorly governed and defaults to protecting incumbents, probably Europe.
[–] tt24 5 days ago
This is due to regulation
[–] Dylan16807 5 days ago
While it's often a scapegoat for lack of construction, it does contribute to a lack of housing. It's not an unambiguous good, especially when you look at the hosts that have more than 1-2 houses.
[–] tt24 4 days ago
This is like saying that my LED lightbulb contributes to climate change. Technically true, but completely meaningless.
[–] Dylan16807 4 days ago
Barcelona's at something like 1.2% empty housing and a similar amount of Airbnb locations if these Google results can be trusted. Let's say we want 10% more housing. If shutting down Airbnb would put just 1/4 of those locations on the market, that would be 0.3% of the market or 3% of the goal. That's not a meaningless amount. It's not your flashlight's roughly 0.00000000000001% of 100PWh per full charge.
[–] cowlevel 4 days ago
Also, prices are set on the margins. Everyone who lives there has to pay a competitive rate to AirBNB because otherwise their landlord would just evict them and make it an AirBNB instead.

(Competitive doesn't mean the same price per night - there's also factors of cleaning and occupancy rate)

[–] nsoam 5 days ago
Barcelona has a big problem with a lack of development and mass migration. Has little to do with Airbnb although it’s a good scapegoat.