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points by suddenlybananas 4 days ago | 0 comments

>I’m really enjoying some AI music

I think I would rather shoot myself in the head

"One of the wonders of the world is going down..." - Porcupine Tree, The Sound of Muzak

Controversial take: AI music is more interesting than the autotuned, quantized, mass-market-optimized slop that dominates contemporary pop "music".

I walked into a paint store recently and there was some interesting music playing on the PA. It was some sort of spanish-language 80s new wave I'd never heard before. It had a nice groove. I asked the guy at the counter about it and was surprised to find out it was AI.

So... was it as good as great music? No. But it beat the hell out of muzak. And it was genuinely novel in a way that pop music isn't. I will sacrifice a lot of pride for novelty.

[–] recursive 4 days ago

Seems weird to contrast AI music with auto-tuned music. Most of the AI music I've heard has been tuned perfectly. And I don't generally have a problem with music being in tune.

For my part, I mostly dislike AI music. But if there was to be some AI music that I didn't already dislike for its content, then I would dislike it specifically for being AI. Call me close-minded if you will. Some people don't really like music at all. In general, I love music.

[–] 0x20cowboy 4 days ago

Angine de Poitrine

[–] recursive 4 days ago

What about it? Microtonal music can be perfectly in tune. Further, when people talk about auto-tune, they're normally talking about vocals, notably absent from Angine de Poitrine.

[–] viklove 4 days ago

AI music is far less interesting than anything any person could create. Even if it's acoustically interesting, it's hollow and pointless because it contains no human expression.

AI music is a complete waste of compute. It exists only to further enrich an already wealthy stakeholder, and we should all be ashamed to have ended up in a place where it even exists.

[–] dale_glass 4 days ago

It contains plenty human expression. It's ultimately made by people.

And I think it can be uniquely fun, because it allows for the very rare combination of truly off-beat ideas with excellent execution.

In real life, it very rarely happens that somebody will spend a lifetime learning, gather a band, and then record something extremely off-beat. Because there are risks to that. Destroying your image, having to find people that are on the same wavelength, having to justify the time and money it costs to record something weird and not marketable.

Sure, people make weird stuff once in a while, but very rarely, and generally it takes unique individuals that find some particular weird niche to work in, like Weird Al or Max Raabe. And even then they tend to pick something relatively tame and marketable and stick to that.

But AI can bypass all that, and that makes things interesting.

[–] JDups 4 days ago

The vast majority of music is made with no regards to marketability, it's just people doing whatever they personally like. An incredibly small amount of artists have any sort of "image", that necessitates being popular already.

And often the weirdest artists are also the most prolific because they tend to like experimenting for experimenting's sake.

[–] vconnor 4 days ago

You need to listen more than the Top 10 charts my dude. The fact that you use Weird Al as an example of experimental musician says it all about your depth of knowledge.

[–] stickfigure 4 days ago

In the 1980s, Weird Al was definitely experimental. Your comment just shows how young you are.

[–] viklove 4 days ago

You're still showing how ignorant you are. Even in 1980, Weird Al was pretty vanilla. The spectrum of music is wide, and it would do you good to go and explore it (and while you're at it, try making some!).

[–] stickfigure 4 days ago

Making blind (and wrong) assumptions about people here is also a sign of immaturity.

[–] viklove 4 days ago

> In real life, it very rarely happens that somebody will spend a lifetime learning, gather a band, and then record something extremely off-beat.

My jaw literally dropped. Do you really believe this?

I think you just don't spend much time around people who love music.

It makes sense that someone like you would like AI music, I guess. You are clueless.

[–] dale_glass 4 days ago

> My jaw literally dropped. Do you really believe this?

Sure. It happens in every field. When you invest a lot into something, it becomes risky or unprofitable to do some things.

Tech often drives things in the opposite direction. As it gets easier/cheaper/faster to create something, doing something odd and risky becomes easier to justify because there's less invested into it and there's fewer people whose cooperation is needed.

I'm not saying nobody does anything risky traditionally of course. But there's barriers to it, which become lesser once tech trivializes a good part of the process.

> It makes sense that someone like you would like AI music, I guess. You are clueless.

I like music in general, and am fairly indifferent as to how the goose is cooked. I listen to almost everything. There's no reason to exclude AI music. If it sounds good, it's good.

[–] foltik 4 days ago

Awfully bold (and tech brained) claims about musicians for someone who couldn't care less how music is made.

[–] zahlman 4 days ago

What claims about musicians? The only claim I saw is that it's relatively rare to observe musicians doing the musician thing, and I think that's quite accurate because IMX musicians (in the sense that we mean for the current purposes) are rare individuals.

[–] zahlman 4 days ago

> I think you just don't spend much time around people who love music.

This doesn't contradict GP at all. Very few people genuinely "love music" in the way that you have in mind.

[–] zahlman 4 days ago

> Even if it's acoustically interesting, it's hollow and pointless because it contains no human expression.

Most of the "top 40" consistently comes across the same way to me (and pretty much always has), so.

[–] suddenlybananas 4 days ago

>80s new wave

>it was genuinely novel

Look, I don't know the song so I can't say how novel it is, but to me, it completely misses the point if its made by a music generation model. The point of music is not to make a bunch of novel sounds. Music is a means by which a human can express themselves, the whole _point_ of art is human expression.

[–] Liuser 4 days ago

Art is subjective. It sounds like AI music did evoke an emotional response from OP, which IMO is also just as important of what we define as the purpose of art: evoking emotion and awe from consuming art. A connection is being made from the creator to the consumer. I view AI as merely another tool to that means.

Human expression with art can go both ways from producing and experiencing.

[–] Jtarii 4 days ago

Just because its not art doesn't mean its not funny or interesting to listen to.

Bird's aren't making art when they sing, I still like listening to birds. Why can't the sounds AI make be in the same category.

[–] computably 4 days ago

Well, anybody can enjoy anything. But I personally would say birdsong is of infinitely higher value than genAI music.

[–] chasd00 4 days ago

Discussions about music always boil down to “stop liking what I don’t like!”.

[–] suddenlybananas 4 days ago

What I'm saying is what they like isn't music. People can also just have bad taste, we don't need to pretend that everyone's tastes are equally valid.

[–] plastic-enjoyer 4 days ago

>Controversial take: AI music is more interesting than the autotuned, quantized, mass-market-optimized slop that dominates contemporary pop "music".

Controversial take: AI shows that people simply don't give a shit and just confirms that mass culture is a mistake and the death of everything that is good and sacred.

[–] yuye 4 days ago

>Controversial take: AI shows that people simply don't give a shit and just confirms that mass culture is a mistake and the death of everything that is good and sacred.

Controversial take: For ages, it's been clear that most people have never given a shit, it just took AI for most to realize it.

[–] computably 4 days ago

> Controversial take: AI music is more interesting than the autotuned, quantized, mass-market-optimized slop that dominates contemporary pop "music".

> And it was genuinely novel in a way that pop music isn't. I will sacrifice a lot of pride for novelty.

For one thing, "interesting" and "novel" are not particularly the point of art. An infinite TikTok feed of AI slop is in some sense infinitely interesting and novel.

But also, those concepts are subjective. Pop music has a ton of evolution and innovation if you break it down. Sure, not every hit is doing something clever, but plenty of them are. You might not find those features to be interesting but it takes ingenuity to stand out in an era where the barrier to entry is so low.

[–] lynx97 4 days ago

I checked out from pop music roughly 30 years ago, when I moved out of my parents house. There is literally NOTHING that interests me in the pop music charts.

[–] footy 4 days ago

okay but the only choices are not "an AI simulation of music" and muzak. Actual music exists.

[–] verdverm 4 days ago

try Jazz, infinitely more interesting than anything Ai could make

I saw a live band last week (daft punk meets prince), they wrote a song about Ai and used an auto tuner for it

[–] sham1 4 days ago

> Controversial take: AI music is more interesting than the autotuned, quantized, mass-market-optimized slop that dominates contemporary pop "music".

You're right, this sure was a controversial take.

Anyway, surely this dichotomy only matters if your only choices are "AI generated music" and "autotuned, quantized, mass-market-optimized slop that dominates contemporary pop "music"". However, there is a bunch of good music outside of the "pop music" zone, which isn't AI generated, so why not go with some of that instead? Nobody is forcing you to listen to pop music.

[–] stickfigure 3 days ago

I do go with that? 99% of the time I listen to human music. My main complaint is that humans aren't making music that I like fast enough. What's wrong with listening to AI music too?

[–] zahlman 4 days ago

> AI music is more interesting than the autotuned, quantized, mass-market-optimized slop that dominates contemporary pop "music".

My experience has been that AI music mostly is that.

[–] keybored 4 days ago

1. Find some truism, like that corners pop culture are trash

2. Call it slop

3. Claim victory

[–] iugtmkbdfil834 4 days ago

shrug

I don't know what to tell you, but me and my kid are having a blast writing ridiculous songs and plopping them with song descriptions and some of those make it to our drive playlists.

[–] i1856511 4 days ago

Respectfully, the primary thing you are describing here is spending time with your children. Same could be said for spending time and attention discussing children's drawings.

[–] khgihpipihkjdsg 4 days ago

<< you are describing here is spending time with your children.

Note: same guy; just not anywhere near my account

You are making the argument that the type of activity does not matter as long it is 'spending time', but to say that is almost reductionist to say that that it understates how ridiculously unnuanced an opinion it is. You might as well tell me that the quality of food does not matter and generic burger should suffice.

But what if I want a burger that is custom to me and not a generic slop generated by a human to appeal to the widest possible audience[1]? What if I want something that was created just for me? Good grief? Why do I have to defend having fun and why on earth would you assume that one is mutually exclusive to the other?

Geez man. [1]https://genius.com/Bo-burnham-repeat-stuff-lyrics

[–] i1856511 2 days ago

Do you also create and listen to AI music for yourself, privately?

[–] iugtmkbdfil834 2 days ago

Short answer? Yes, it is a car playlist after all.

[–] i1856511 1 day ago

Then you are a stronger man than I. I just haven't found AI generated music to be sonically pleasing to me. And I have experimented quite a bit with Suno, Udio etc.

[–] iugtmkbdfil834 1 day ago

You got me curious ( from my social circle that plays with models I am the only one that plays with sound ones ). What is your process though? I am admittedly a lot less.. strict about testing those and still get annoyed when they eat a verse or read pieces intended as description. But then, it helps that I don't treat it as anything serious and it occasionally produces something fun.

[–] hobo123 3 days ago

That's goofing around and a totally valid use. Doesn't make it good music.

[–] Coill 4 days ago

AI music is much better than manufactured boy bands, which are pure marketing products hacking teen girl brain. Pop-slop.

[–] AlexCoventry 4 days ago

Try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HrlDMK3hXQ

[–] runarberg 4 days ago

Yes, no... You made your parent’s point perfectly. This is worse then any pop music I have ever heard, by a significant margin.

[–] mr_toad 4 days ago

Sounds exactly like the currently-most-popular female pop singer from the last two decades; they’ve always sounded manufactured.

[–] MiiMe19 4 days ago

Maybe I'm intensely schizophrenic or something but I can just clearly hear the AI in this and it sounds grating to me.

[–] stronglikedan 4 days ago

The problem with AI performances is that they're too perfect, which leaves them flat. The dynamics and imperfections of human performance have yet to be replicated. That affects every human performance whether or not you notice you're noticing (but you are). AI is still in the uncanny valley here.

[–] kenjackson 4 days ago

This sounds like CD music 40 years ago. All my friends said that it was not like a record and left an empty feeling in the room. I feel like this is not talked about any more. People listen to digital music and have forgotten there was an alternative. I suspect that in the coming years no one will think twice about AI generated music.

[–] basilikum 4 days ago

Does anyone actually like this?

[–] vconnor 4 days ago

Philosophical zombies.

[–] AlexCoventry 3 days ago

Why do you believe I'm philosophically bankrupt?

[–] johndhi 4 days ago

Nice. You make it?

[–] spacechild1 4 days ago

Ugh...