Hacker News
points by ceejayoz 5 days ago | 0 comments
> What they are doing is quite obviously legal right now. Federal law trumps state law…

No. There's no "states must permit gambling" Federal law for state bans to conflict with currently; states are free to ban it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling_in_the_United_States

"While gambling is legal under U.S. federal law, there are significant restrictions pertaining to interstate and online gambling, as each state is free to regulate or prohibit the practice within its borders."

[–] cogman10 5 days ago
While I know of a few cases where federal law can force a state to have looser restrictions (for example, the second amendment), it's pretty uncommon. Usually if a state wants to ban something, it can ban it and federal law can't stop such a ban without a pretty strong constitutional justification.
[–] ceejayoz 5 days ago
> While I know of a few cases where federal law can force a state to have looser restrictions (for example, the second amendment)…

The Second Amendment isn't even really Federal law, nor is the rest of the Constitution. It's the supreme law that sits above Federal/state law and constrains what Federal/state laws can do.

(And the Tenth Amendment protects state laws significantly from Federal laws, where applicable.)

[–] stickfigure 5 days ago
If it were that simple then these markets would have been shut down already.

Matt Levine has gone into great detail about the legal chicanery that brought us here, but it summarizes as "it's not gambling, it's futures trading".

This seems like nonsense to you and me (and Matt Levine), but our opinions are irrelevant here. The courts' opinions are, and so far they've been coming down on the side of the prediction markets. Mostly.

So by definition - as weird as it is - it's legal. So far.

[–] monknomo 5 days ago
But we're talking about legislator's opinions here. They make the law. A good way to influence the courts, as a legislator, is to write a law.

Even if you are a state legislator, and federal courts are mixed, you should write the law to raise the issue salience and get the federal law tweak.

Courts really are not the end-all-be-all when we're talking about legislators making laws, that's silly.

[–] ceejayoz 5 days ago
> If it were that simple then these markets would have been shut down already.

Sure, just like storing a bunch of classified docs in a Mar-a-Lago bathroom was.

You are mixing up "currently getting away with it" for legal.

[–] stickfigure 5 days ago
You're mixing up "what is" with "what should be".
[–] cogman10 5 days ago
People are still selling fentanyl without a prescription. Is that legal?

Courts move slow, especially when the party being targeted has a lot of money. Them allowing Kalshi to operate isn't an endorsement, it just means they don't see what Kalshi is doing as a significant harm. The injunction to stop them from operating in Utah is still winding it's way through appeals.

Whether or not what they are doing is legal is not determined until they either settle, Utah drops the case, or the trail and appeals process determines that they are not guilty.

[–] stickfigure 5 days ago
> People are still selling fentanyl without a prescription. Is that legal?

Obviously not. You know how you can tell? Police will stop you from doing it.

[–] cogman10 5 days ago
> You know how you can tell? Police will stop you from doing it.

Police will stop you from recording them, is that illegal?

[–] stickfigure 5 days ago
No, and in fact this is a pretty good way of getting a big settlement check out of the district if you're willing to suffer the hassle of an (illegal) arrest.
[–] ceejayoz 5 days ago
> Police will stop you from doing it.

"Kalshi and its co-founders face felony charges" would seem to describe that process, yes? The same first step a fentanyl dealer would encounter?

Swap out "selling fentanyl" for widely tolerated but often still illegal jaywalking if you like.

[–] stickfigure 5 days ago
"The state did not issue arrest warrants for Monsour and Lopes Lara. Instead, they have been issued summons to respond to the charges in Third District Court in Salt Lake County"

I don't think your fentanyl dealer will receive the same treatment. They aren't even taking away the "drugs" from Kalshi.