You know the reason. A bunch of people were able to take home a lot of money because of that growth and now have the option to FIRE themselves whenever they want to shake off the stress.
That's the founder mentality that Y Combinator exists to leverage or encourage and it's ubiquity is what separates the prevailing 21st century technology movement from the nerdy, academic, UNIX-y movement that gave us GNU, linux, curl, ffmpeg, redis, etc
We got to watch innovative products get pumped full of helium until they explode with bloat and rent-seeking instead of accumulating a growing foundation of sturdy technical building blocks as we could have had on the other path.
AI now leads us into some new movement, the worst version of which a few model vendors protected by regulations absorb almost all technical accomplishment and lease it back out to everybody else, and the best version of which democratizes technical construction so widely that individuals can naively spin up effective solutions for the most idiosyncratic needs.
We'll see how it goes.
[–] cnity 4 days ago
[–] oytmeal 4 days ago
[–] alias_neo 4 days ago
[–] godelmachine 4 days ago
[–] krazydad 4 days ago
[–] kraag22 4 days ago
[–] vrganj 4 days ago
That is true, hackers, that is true.
But they cannot help their neighbors;
That's not good, hackers, that's not good.
Join us now and share the software;
You'll be free, hackers, you'll be free.
-- The Free Software Song, as written and sung by rms
[–] netik 4 days ago
[–] cowlevel 4 days ago
[–] 0xpgm 4 hours ago
[–] agorabinary 4 days ago
A minor tweak to The Parable of the Mexican Fisherman[1]:
The venture capitalist laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time was right, you would announce an IPO, and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You would make millions!”
“Millions – then what?”
[1] https://aliabdaal.com/newsletter/the-parable-of-the-mexican-...
[–] johnnyanmac 4 days ago
Well, living on the other side of the pond: I get shuffled around and laid off every few years in the game industry and any savings I had got obliterated surviving in this not-recession as everyone around me gaslights me into telling me that "the economy is fine", while doing regular layoffs in nearly all sectors. And it's not like I have some sort of high respect for my craft by those who enjoy it either.
There's definitely a temptation to just sell out, find a huge buyout, and get out of the rat race so I can tinker to my heart's content on stuff I want to make. Not what "sells" or what some director wanted after 20 filters of HR, "focus groups, and other sales people get their hands on it. What integrity am I truly keeping in the former situation?
Of course, all this assumes I have the opportunity to sell out. Someone at that point is more than likely someone who was already in a trajectory to defy the typical 9-5 40 hour grind to begin with.
[–] lotsofpulp 4 days ago
Because then I can guarantee access to food/shelter/healthcare for my kids if me or their mom or one of them were to become incapacitated in some way.
[–] prmoustache 4 days ago
Also I am paying taxes for that and am glad of paying it for whoever has the need to instead of them or me having to setup a gofundme campaign.
I'd say voting for the right candidates is better than a system where a few of apparently lucky people can achieve that while in fact they are completely losing their mind in the process and leaving in constant stress (if my observation of founders and so called successful tech bros is correct)
[–] lotsofpulp 4 days ago
[–] roncesvalles 4 days ago
You can't make it your life objective to guard against the 0.01% risk of your children becoming orphaned before 18. Just buy term insurance if anything.
[–] lotsofpulp 4 days ago
Insuring against death and orphaned kids is cheap and easy. Insuring against long term disability is not.
If you are a high earner in the US, you can make it your objective and live a far less stressful life because saving a few million is possible.
[–] walt_grata 4 days ago
[–] lotsofpulp 4 days ago
[–] hluska 4 days ago
Have some basic human respect.
[–] hluska 4 days ago
[–] terribleperson 4 days ago
[–] prcrstntr 4 days ago
[–] mschuster91 4 days ago
Yeah and the issues from these vibecoded one-off programs will be felt for generations.
I got out of IT partially because I could see the writing on the wall. The "load bearing Excel sheet" is one thing, manageable if you could catch the person who wrote it in time before they depart or die and know your way around Excel - there's only so many ways to achieve a desired goal (unless the author used VBA, at which point all bets are off, and I member encountering a spreadsheet that macro-called in a DLL shipped together with the sheet).
But vibe coded AI bullshit? That is supposed to be hosted by someone and kept secure (i.e. isn't hackable in a few seconds by anyone who manages to compromise some dingus's laptop? Oh hell no. I'm outta there, I'm too old for this crap.
[–] robotnikman 4 days ago
That sounds absolutely horrifying. I never encountered one of those before thankfully.
[–] akiselev 4 days ago
That DLL hooks into SCADA and sometimes sends updates to a PLC controlling safety critical equipment. When does it send updates versus just query the controller? No one knows. The guy who wrote it died in an (unrelated) industrial accident involving a runaway forklift after leaving the company. Even so much as debugging it would require shutting down the entire factory and replacing all the crucibles afterwards ($$$).
[–] Ekaros 4 days ago
[–] jasomill 4 days ago
The subject matter was building an auditing system to comply with the requirements of an IRS consent decree as part of a settlement for shoddy accounting practices which may or may not have included tracking billions of dollars of assets with Excel.
[–] RugnirViking 4 days ago
[–] jodrellblank 4 days ago
Ask an LLM to reverse engineer it and explain it.
[–] jacobgkau 4 days ago
> Even so much as debugging it would require shutting down the entire factory and replacing all the crucibles afterwards ($$$).
I'm guessing the fundamental reason debugging would require that isn't something an AI could get around. My guess is the LLM would immediately disregard whatever instructions you gave it not to cause having to replace all the crucibles, then say "Oops! You're right." when you point out that you asked it not to do that.
[–] wholinator2 4 days ago
I'm not saying it's easy, or worth anyone's time, but it should be possible right?
[–] mschuster91 4 days ago
AI will attempt to evade your sandbox.
The only thing you can do is ask the AI to do a decompile and have it summarize, or better, do the summary yourself.
[–] jacobgkau 3 days ago
Even if you use AI tools to assist, there's going to be a lot more manual work involved than simply throwing a prompt at a chatbot.
[–] jodrellblank 3 days ago
It's possible the company who made the industrial machinery used an "Indiana Jones film booby trap" and a kernel level anti-cheat system from the AAA GameDev industry to detect debuggers being attatched and deliberately damage the expensive factory machinery you bought from them so that you would have to pay them to repair it. But would such a technically capable company produce a controller using an Excel spreadsheet and Visual Basic? Seems more likely that it would be a fairly pedestrian C dll written by electrical engineers with an RS-232 interface and logic for reading/writing stepper motor state and temperature sensors.
Anyway, I didn't suggest debugging it live. "Can Claude code just from DLLs?"[1] - "You could've just pasted the DLL into Claude by now and had the results. Claude can read and analyze basically anything" and "Claude has done that a lot for my projects. Doesn't matter if it's a dll built with .NET or C, etc. Claude just figures it out, somehow."
Even if you don't start with `strings` and a decompiler and whatever, it would take less time to copy the spreadsheet and DLL into Claude and prompt "what can you make of this? What are the major functions in the DLL, when does it do writing vs polling? What else does it do?" than it would take to write a breathless dramatic comment on HN about how Mission Impossible the task is.
But ok let's say it was built by villains and it is booby-trapped and the DLL is encrypted, password protected, hardware dongle verified, but somehow still on Windows XP or whatever, and it is impossible to even copy or take a backup - plug the cable into a logic analyzer on its way to the machinery and capture the wire protocol. It's likely using a standard old-school serial connection with a known protocol and no encryption or verification. It's not like they need to tap a 1.5Tbps undersea fibre bundle.
[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/ClaudeAI/comments/1x28deo/can_claud...
[–] pessimizer 4 days ago
It's also astonishingly stupid. I don't want a one-off program for everything. I want a well-designed and battle-tested program that I can extend with AI, and that has a ton of people's AIs directed at it, constantly finding bugs, posting them on the bugtracker, and writing and debating pull requests.
I can't comprehend people who think that everything should be built over and over again, and that that will be safe, practical or cheap. It's like they're telling me that I should design a new language for each conversation that I have. Why would I?
The worst part is how far the capabilities of AI are from that dream anyway. They can't even write readable, intelligible code. They're being celebrated for being able to notice buffer overrun errors in code that people would also notice if anybody had ever really looked at some particular span of code in the last 10 years. It's finding errors in move fast and break things code and code that has been maintained by a weirdo professor in his spare time for free and half the economy somehow relies on. That's not magic, its a sign of how sloppy things got.
[–] phil21 4 days ago
The state of IT has been stagnant at best for the past 20-30 odd years. The promises of the 90's or earlier that we were going to have average office workers being able to automate their workflows never was realized.
Today with AI I'm watching random sales people automate a large portion of the bullshit part of their jobs IT and technology systems foisted upon them for no real reason. Those CRM systems that force you to click 28 buttons per lead you enter into the system, with all sorts of amazing UIx like having to restart from scratch if you miss a field, get logged out during data entry, etc. This is the standard state of most software people interact with on a daily basis.
If current IT didn't absolutely suck for most people, and hadn't become a means to it's own ends I think you'd see a lot less pent up demand for these vibe coded one-off applications that solve a specific problem for a single user.
It's been interesting to watch. Normies can finally get stuff done without the IT and developer gatekeeping and get on with doing the meaningful bits of their jobs. For better or worse. It's certainly going to blow up in quite a few cases, but I think the cat is out of the bag if progress in tooling - not even models - continues at a rapid pace.
[–] jasomill 4 days ago
What are the odds that the average corporate IT department is going to allow the use of anything other than locked-down corporate AI with strict token quotas and stricter acceptable use policies?
[–] mschuster91 4 days ago
And most organizations still treat IT as a "support role" which means "cost center", only changing attitude when they inevitably get hacked, and a few years down the line, when enough of the managers who were there during the Great Hack are gone, IT gets the cuts again.
[–] RetroTechie 4 days ago
Sadly that doesn't help at all. Random people automating heaps of crap in order to do their actual work, just makes the crap easier to manage for them. It doesn't remove it.
I'm reminded of health workers or teachers complaining that half their time is wasted on various types of record-keeping, because employer wants to record, check & micromanage everything. Similar with tax systems becoming ever more complex. Those are just a few of many examples.
AI assisting with managing that, just puts some $profitable$ control knobs in the hands of a very few providers. While at the same time enabling the mountain of crap to grow even further.
A real fix would be to use AI to get a better understanding of the existing heap of crap, and use that understanding to cut large chunks out & re-organise the remainder into a simpler stack.
Doesn't seem to me that that's being done. So far AI is mostly used to ADD to the crap-heap, faster & easier.
[–] mschuster91 4 days ago
The thing is, that's been known for a long time, at the latest since the release of Bullshit Jobs [1].
Unfortunately, too many too rich interests are tied up in the status quo.
[–] batat 4 days ago
Before Claude these people used to automate their processes in Excel. Then new people would come along and say, "None of this makes any sense to me so I'll just build my own even better automation in Excel". And again, and again. "Random sales people" won't ask Claude:
- Find out who was the PO in 2019, analyze why it was decided to introduce an additional status in FSTP-14475 instead of (...) What happens if the driver currently outside mobile coverage area and the task processing will return a 202 instead of a 200 (not described in the documentation; refer to FSTP-14385 for additional information), but the status will be updated before the deferred change returns (...)
Instead, they'll do something more like:
- I need to be able to quickly change this and that right here, get it done, don't make any mistakes.
Would be good if Claude could recognize an XY problem and respond "Understanding what you don't want is even more important than understanding what you do want" or "If you try to cut corners here again instead of following the established process - thereby making things more difficult for the people in the warehouse - I will inform your manager" instead of just charging ahead "you're absolutely right, see the goal, ignore the obstacles".
Second, it is easier to fix a flawed but already functional system than build a perfect one from scratch - without running into a problems, contradictions, previously unknown nuances during implementation. Because these contradictions, problems, and oddities over the last 10 years naturally gave you the requirements and specifications that no one of the sales-people and decision-making-people were able to articulate in a coherent way. And yes, now, having these specifications, you can rewrite it in Rust and do things better.
[–] ghshephard 3 days ago
One of the conclusions I've come to - is that 90%+ of the featureitis is checkbox nonsense, often created for managers and administrators who will never use the tools themselves, and are materially harmful to the employees who actually use them, while, ironically, providing zero to sometimes negative value to the Enterprise.
Some of the most profitable projects have been at 20+ year $30B+ companies where a new-generation of technologists have come in and just ... thrown it all away. All the transitions, gates, forms, custom fields, labels, business rules - all of the crud just dumped in the garbage and, amazingly- zero interruption to business, and the tools all of a sudden became moderately useful instead of offensive.
This is very much on topic with Postman, Kibana, Jira, etc.. Pretty much any large enterprise software suite that in order to justify it's millions/dollar a year of license fees, has to pack in feature that aren't valuable to the end-users, but can be used to ratchet up and lock in the enterprise users.
The problem with all of these companies is that once they take VC money, and have a Board driving them to make the chart go up and to the right - they have no option but to destroy what once was a beautiful product, and turn it into a morass of pain.
Tools like ffmpeg, sqlite, vlc, curl, wireshark continue to be excellent because they were never infected with VC money.
[–] jaapz 4 days ago
That really is no longer an up to date view of LLM's. Frontier models can and do write readable, intelligible code.
They can also write shit code.
Kind of like human devs.
[–] mschuster91 4 days ago
The problem is that even frontier models still are prone to regurgitation. They are not that capable of organization and relevance, which is part of why so much LLM output is insanely grating to read.
READMEs in particular are the worst. LLMs tend to regurgitate stuff like "what is located where" that is of zero relevance to the reader, especially if it's yet another bog standard Java, Symfony or React app.
[–] 2muchcoffeeman 4 days ago
>They can't even write readable, intelligible code.
Skill issue.
[–] fock 4 days ago
[–] guitarlimeo 4 days ago
[–] roncesvalles 4 days ago
If you could raise $200 million with your stupid indie project and proceed to enrich yourself by 7-8 figures, why wouldn't you?
I think the greed percolates down from the VCs. And if you really trace it all the way, it's the ubiquity of index funds. The whole game is to get big enough to IPO and get into VTI's index. Then it's just free money from thereon out.
[–] promano 3 days ago
[–] red-iron-pine 4 days ago
[–] cluckindan 4 days ago
[–] abirch 4 days ago
[–] kulahan 4 days ago
The problem isn’t infinite growth in a still-growing world, it’s exactly what you posted here: Growth at all costs. The pendulum has swung too hard in favor of growth over stability. This is great for shareholders (read:everyone in America who wants to realistically retire one day) but bad for workers (read: everyone in America, regardless of whether or not they want to retire one day).
[–] prmoustache 4 days ago
My own observation is that old people tend to spend less shit on silly things, compulsive purchases and focus on the essential. With an ageing global population I don't think one can expect infinite growth unless the category of services is focused on an older population.
Also society change and some stuff that is needed now won't be needed tomorrow. I don't think there is anything wrong with a shrinking market as long as it is gradual and slow enough that it lets people working for affected companies involved to retire and/or move.
[–] imtringued 4 days ago
Not true.
[–] kulahan 4 days ago
[–] abirch 4 days ago
[–] kulahan 3 days ago
If he wants to go and divide the stock market up between international and non-international companies to keep score for his own purposes, he is welcome, but it’s unrelated to the conversation he entered.
[–] cluckindan 4 days ago
[–] bell-cot 4 days ago
It'd be nice to imagine our society surviving our ruling classes' addiction, but I would not bet on that.
(You might read some essays by recovered addicts to get a sense of the monomania of it, and why they wouldn't about things like "mature" and "stable".)
[–] m0llusk 4 days ago
[–] latentsea 4 days ago
[–] rafram 4 days ago
[–] drBonkers 4 days ago
[–] rafram 4 days ago
[–] Vaushite 4 days ago
[–] cj9 4 days ago
[–] theturtletalks 4 days ago
[–] caned 4 days ago
[–] theturtletalks 4 days ago
I built software to manage my own e-commerce business before AI coding existed but see teenagers I mentor vibe code applications that are actually helping them make money. They are 5-7 years ahead of where I was at their age and I started the e-commerce business in college.
And these people are making software for themselves and opensourcing it. So what are you on about peers resolving problems?
[–] caned 4 days ago
It's a phenomenon I've observed which doesn't necessarily take away from the benefits you've found. But maybe it's worth some consideration that this shift in empowerment isn't without negative consequences.
[–] theturtletalks 4 days ago
You realize mostly proprietary software is made by people that haven’t even worked in that niche? Now people in that niche with these immediate loop can make software work way better and faster. Without the risk of it getting worse over time or selling out it a PE firm like Bending Spoons.
[–] tempest_ 4 days ago
[–] theturtletalks 4 days ago
[–] surgical_fire 4 days ago
[–] theturtletalks 4 days ago
fx0
https://github.com/vercel-labs/fx0
It’s by Vercel Labs, but it’s a small team and it’s basically a small website builder and even comes with 5 free prompts. I’m building on it to build a universal storefront
Moss Keeper
https://github.com/ChetasLua/moss-keeper
Someone who got early access to Fable 5.5 asked it to make an anime style video using html and it’s amazing. I might make a short film doing this one day.
Money Shot
https://github.com/SocialAcolyte/monet-shot
A sort of screen studio alternative with a twist
MailCheap
https://github.com/marclou/mailcheap
Opensource alternative to BeeHiv
These are my latest stats on Github: https://github.com/junaid33?tab=stars
[–] mifydev 4 days ago
[–] antod 4 days ago
[–] Vaushite 4 days ago
[–] satvikpendem 4 days ago
[–] brians 4 days ago
What’s something that was released as MIT but, had it been GPL2, would have seeded a community?
[–] Vaushite 3 days ago
[–] SR2Z 21 hours ago
IMO this is unfortunate but must be allowed if we want to have truly open licenses.
[–] hkt 4 days ago
[–] eagleal 4 days ago
[–] ethbr1 4 days ago
[–] oblio 4 days ago
[–] LoganDark 4 days ago
We have evidence that any hardware maker that would open up their hardware will do it already (see: reMarkable, Ubiquiti offering SSH root access). If you try to fight that battle by holding software from them, you only lose them as a contributor as they make their own, which is worse for everyone.
[–] Vaushite 3 days ago
[–] ThrowawayR2 4 days ago
[–] jasomill 4 days ago
[–] ctmlr 4 days ago
[–] zaik 4 days ago
[–] conductr 4 days ago
[–] bigyabai 4 days ago
[–] kyleee 4 days ago
[–] rnd0 4 days ago