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points by austin-cheney 5 days ago | 0 comments

The LDS church (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints), which is also based in Utah has provided explicit guidance against participation in Kalshi and Polymarket as gambling.

Here is their official stance on gambling: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topi...

I am not sure how much, if any, impact or influence this has had on Utah law.

[–] jboggan 5 days ago

They absolutely have been the main force behind the timing of this push. It was the main topic of General Conference a few weeks ago and one of the most eyebrow-raising articulations of official church policy.

Given the way that the church has explicitly encouraged state legislators to shoot down recent laws it's not surprising to think they'd be pushing for this.

[–] pchristensen 5 days ago

To be clear, it was one talk out of ~30, not the main topic. But the talk (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference...) was unusually direct and stood out among the more common, often repeated topics like faith, temples, etc.

[–] Shared404 4 days ago

It has also been the talk that I've seen the most discussion about in both faithful and non-faithful circles.

Also it's the only time I've seen nonaffiliated news articles about a statement the church has made about a topic other than lgbtq rights or abortion - notably much more politicized topics in general. That may be due to my own inattentiveness however.

All that to say that calling it "the main topic" is incorrect in technicality, but not in impact imo.

[–] Shared404 5 days ago

> Given the way that the church has explicitly encouraged state legislators to shoot down recent laws it's not surprising to think they'd be pushing for this.

And the way they've influenced voters in Idaho and Arizona recently.

[–] bobtheborg 5 days ago

I thought it worth posting the stance for those not willing to click

... Gambling is motivated by a desire to get something for nothing. This desire is spiritually destructive. It leads participants away from the Savior’s teachings of love and service and toward the selfishness of the adversary. It undermines the virtues of work and thrift and the desire to give honest effort in all we do.

Those who participate in gambling soon discover the deception in the idea that they can give little or nothing and receive something of value in return. They find that they give up large amounts of money, their own honor, and the respect of family members and friends. Deceived and addicted, they often gamble with funds they should use for other purposes, such as meeting the basic needs of their families. Gamblers sometimes become so enslaved and so desperate to pay gambling debts that they turn to stealing, giving up their own good name.

[–] mahboi 5 days ago

Also "Utah is one of only two states where gambling is also prohibited under the state constitution"

[–] gottorf 5 days ago

Funnily enough, Hawaii is the other one. Three more states also do not have lotteries.

[–] lotsofpulp 5 days ago

Washington State constitution, article 2, section 24 originally banned lotteries too:

https://leg.wa.gov/state-laws-and-rules/washington-state-con...

>SECTION 24. LOTTERIES AND DIVORCE

>The legislature shall never grant any divorce. Lotteries shall be prohibited except as specifically authorized upon the affirmative vote of sixty percent of the members of each house of the legislature or, notwithstanding any other provision of this Constitution, by referendum or initiative approved by a sixty percent affirmative vote of the electors voting thereon. [AMENDMENT 56, 1971 Senate Joint Resolution No. 5, p 1828. Approved November 7, 1972.]

>NOTES: Original text — Art. 2 Section 24 LOTTERIES AND DIVORCE — The legislature shall never authorize any lottery or grant any divorce.

[–] mahboi 5 days ago

Hm, I could get behind that in California

[–] whimsicalism 5 days ago

You get organized crime fillin.

[–] mahboi 5 days ago

Don't care, also doesn't seem to be a problem in Utah

[–] zbentley 5 days ago

Like it did in Utah and Hawai’i?

[–] whimsicalism 5 days ago

I'm saying you would in California.

[–] zbentley 5 days ago

And I’m saying there’s no evidence for that. Illegal gambling arrest rates haven’t significantly changed since before Kalshi and Polymarket existed, so there’s no reason to believe that banning them would change that. Combined with other states’ examples wherein banning gambling outright didn’t cause significant social harms (e.g. organized crime), and I think the burden’s on you to show why CA is special and would suffer from a gambling ban.

Like, are there some gamblers who, if it were made illegal, would do it illegally in harmful ways? Yes! Are there enough such people that the social harms of banning gambling would be significant? I don’t think the data bears that out. This isn’t prohibition; this is something that has already been widely proscribed by law in the past without serious negative consequences (other than missed opportunities for riches on the part of the gambling companies that pushed to relax those prohibitions over the last decade).

[–] sosborn 4 days ago

LDS is pretty strong here, and have historically been the ones opposing legalization efforts.

[–] petcat 5 days ago

Ehh I wouldn't try to appeal too much to what the LDS church thinks about this. They require members to give 10% of their annual income to the church, while already having close to $300 billion in the bank.

Everyone knows the state of Utah is largely run by the church.

[–] Shared404 5 days ago

> Everyone knows the state of Utah is largely run by the church.

Surprisingly few people know this ime. It's worth pointing out as one of the few areas [0] where the church has as much pull as its members think it does.

While I wouldn't look to the church as a bastion of morality for So Many Reasons, it's worth looking at a hard example of how it is able to manipulate politics in Utah, and by extension nationwide.

[0] Other areas worth being aware of are Idaho and parts of Arizona of course.

[–] wredcoll 5 days ago

If the state of utah is run by the church, then presumably if the church wants to ban kalshi, it's going to matter.

[–] mahboi 5 days ago

The point isn't to appeal, right? Just speculate on whether the church is the reason for this.